Six way limped pot, HERO in SB with 95

Flop comes: AQ3

Hero checks, BB (new to table, played one round) bets 8$. fold to MP (drunk German, hasn't been at table long) calls. Folds to BTN (UK player, seems to be decent, lost a lot of hands though, timing is off) Calls. HERO calls.

Turn: 8

HERO checks.BB bets 16$. GERMAN calls. BTN folds. Hero??????

Both players left in have 120-150. HERO covers.

Obviously their bets look weak. no reads, though.

fold, even if you make your flush it may be no good or you may not even get paid off otr

Since when is the Bellagio a 1/3 game?

Grunch.

This is a fold. If we're going to continue, it has to be a raise. In order for that to be profitable, we need them to fold a large portion of the time to a c/r or to our inevitable river barrel. We also need to get stacks in if we hit our flush, and we can't rule out that either of them has FDs, nor can we say conclusively that we have any fold equity at all.

Just fold, wait for a better spot vs drunk germans in vegas. There's going to be plenty of em.

Bellagio changed 1/2 to 1/3 back in October (or late September).

Aha! That's awesome. I last played there in March. Good room, this makes it better. 1/3 >> 1/2.

so you guys are fine calling otf getting 3 to 1 and now want to fold when we have added equity getting about 5 to 1?

How does the 8d add equity to our hand?

Isn't this a snap call? There's around $80 in the pot and we only need to put $16 in the pot to see the river. With the ace on the board, I think there's a good chance we get paid off with a bet on the river because someone is likely to have top pair.

Also, the fact that the ace of spades and queen of spades are on the board makes me feel better if we hit a flush. Nobody can have those cards, and even if someone does have a flush, those cards being on the board increase the chances that our flush is good.

As for the Bellagio, it's true that they switched to 1/3 a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure they increased the buy-in to $300.

The best time to fold is preflop with 95s from the SB. Look at how well you flopped and how miserably hard this hand is to play OOP.

I probably fold the flop to be honest, unless you have a serious read that the German will pay you like crazy with mediocre hands when you hit a front door draw like this.

We should be leading this flop and forging our way to the river for our price, not theirs.

Check calling lets them lead us over the cliff any route they want to take.

I certainly dont like leading since this is a 6 way limped pot, and somebody had to have something. There's just not enough FE for anyone to lay down a pair yet. However what I really like doing here is going for a big ole check raise. We pretty much toss out all hands that beat us, and leave only a couple of flushes people are likely to play here, and lets face it, how many people can really be on a flush draw?

That being said, what I like most about check-raising is that we can rep a huge hand. We're in the SB afterall, and with as weak as these players are betting, their hands probably reflect the strength of their bets. We can easily have 2 pair, lucky set, etc. Players are more likely to fall in line and fold behind each other when we do this too. Afterall if somebody call/folded then that means they recognized they were beat. The next fish is likely to be subliminally influenced by this.

Even if we get a call, and I suspect we get 1 at most, it's almost certain to be a lone Ace. We might, MIGHT be able to double barrel him off, but what's really great is if we hit our flush, that ace is probably still calling because this is live and well, you know how live players are. I dont really want to play for stacks with a 9 high flush here, but I'm still feeling pretty good about it when I hit.

DRANSRSAintNoLimit;37129281]We should be leading this flop and forging our way to the river for our price, not theirs.

Check calling lets them lead us over the cliff any route they want to take.[/QUOTE]

Assuming we bet the flop, how much would you bet?

Assuming we bet the flop, how much would you bet?[/QUOTE]



I would bet about 50 -55% pot. And bet it as if I loved my hand. I would fold to a decent sized raise. My goal is to bet my way (My pricing) to river while keeping the lead and keeping my range very wide.

If the villains were complete tards, and raised smallish i would call if i thought they would call a turn bet if the spade hits. (which would most likely be true i suppose)

I hate a CR by the way. Playing a big pot OOP with this hand is lighting a keg of dynamite with no safety goggles on.

Dont complete the SB. Its only 2 dollars but 95s is so -ev from the Sb here in a limped pot.

c/r is bad at stakes where villains are very bad at folding TP hands. Congratulations you're shoving money in the pot with a bare flush draw getting <40% equity. That's a bad line to take.

I'd rather bet/fold, check/fold, or check/call than check/raise.

I would bet about 50 -55% pot. And bet it as if I loved my hand. I would fold to a decent sized raise. My goal is to bet my way (My pricing) to river while keeping the lead and keeping my range very wide.

If the villains were complete tards, and raised smallish i would call if i thought they would call a turn bet if the spade hits. (which would most likely be true i suppose)

I hate a CR by the way. Playing a big pot OOP with this hand is lighting a keg of dynamite with no safety goggles on.[/QUOTE]

Thanx for the response ANL. I'm not sure about leading into this big of a field with a naked flush draw, but agree with you're betting approach.

I like the check raise on the flop, more than i like opening the action in a six way pot. Here is why:

Check raising can possibly win the pot there and take all the dead money.
It will cause flush draws to fold, if the raise is large enough.
It will allow us to potentially see a free river since we are OOP.

As played however, i do like the line of opening the action on the turn, giving us the price we want and not having to call someone else. (like stated). We almost have to barrelll the river though if we don't hit a spade.

Really bad thought there, IMO. It was six way. These guys call too much, they don't fold Ax nearly often enough here.

And there aren't as many flush draws to fold out when AsQs are on board. Plus we can fold some of those draws for cheaper by just betting the flop the first time around.

I fold preflop. It's too costly to be putting in $2 OOP with a mediocre suited hand / horribly gapped hand.

Once I see the flop, I also just check/call getting our good odds. Hope we're not dominated if our draw comes in.

I just check/call the turn while lol'ing at the bet size. We're getting ~5:1 so we can't fold now. Drunk guy could have anything so he's not necessarily hogging up some outs / has a better flush draw. Even though the bet size is lol small, I don't like any thoughts of semi-bluff raising as we'd have to fold out 2 opponents plus pot is already ~$80+ and they are fairly short.

If I hit a spade on the river, my plan would be to open shove as it will only be a slightish overbet and there's no way we will be able to consider a bet/fold with these stacks.

ETA: I have to say, I really would hate donking this flop. No one with an A or gutshot is folding and there's a decent chance there's multiple hands that fit this description out there in a 6way limped pot. Plus we're obviously playing against players who have no concept of bet sizing, in which case there's a good chance we get a great price on the flop/turn. I think this is a pretty standard passive check/call all the way here.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I like how everyone says dont c/r because fish are stations and never folding any pair. Therefore fire at least 2 barrels into the pot OOP with 9 high.

Fish are stations, but usually in raised pots. You raised, and they called with something they felt was worth calling a raise with, like Ace rag or suited junk. When they hit any piece, THIS is why they call. Because they have true incentive, they called your raise afterall. But in a LIMPED pot the initiative and desire is low. They limped in with the bottom of their range, and without much money in the pot, or any implied odds to win anything, they tend to fold more easily.

I think a c/r gets us to where we want to be much better than leading. We steal dead money, hit our draw and stack someone, or just give up without wasting any more time putting money in a pot with absolutely no idea where we stand. If villains call flop and turn, then what? We have no idea what they are calling with.

agreed. in a limped pot even a rookie is afraid of a raise, especially a check raise. however, if the pot had been raised pre flop i think that gives a 'fish' more reason to call a raise with Top pair.I do think in this instance a check raise on the FLOP would have taken down thee pot, even a bet on turn and river might have won.. there was a showdown and both had less than marginal hands.