$300 effective, 6-handed
Young Asian reg opens $15 UTG
Old white woman calls $15 CO
Hero 3bets $70 SB with QJdd
Reg folds
Old woman calls $70

Flop ($143) is Ah Qh Td

Hero bets $50
Old woman calls $50

Turn ($243) is Ah Qh Td 9d

Hero jams $180

Is this standard or too aggressive?

Most old white women I play with are passive, will fold to 3b pre without pretty huge hands, and will happily relentlessly call down TPTK and 2p postflop regardless of whether they should be afraid or not.

On this board, against her, I think I check back the flop and re-evaluate on the turn.

I think playing aggressively here you’re always folding out worse and getting called by better. The only hand you might bluff out of the pot that you’re ahead of on the turn is KQ.

Curious about why you 3b an UTG opener here, too. I could see 3b vs an MP or LP open but is there something about that reg opening UTG loose and folding too much to 3b?

At this effective stack, calling pre-flop leaves more room to navigate post. QJs has zero SD value after putting in ~25% pre.

Flop – C/F. What is your reason behind betting?

as long as you're not 3betting 100% of the time pre this looks fine. nh

Missed that we were in SB. Thought we were in position for some reason.

Doesn't change much as far as me taking a passive line vs. this V though. x/f seems fine. This V is never bluffing and our equity is probably nowhere near as good as we hope it is.

Turn jam is good vs. majority of opponents, but not sure it is against this one.

I just call pf in the sb, its a good hand and youll probabky have to fold to a 4bet.... and that sucks

Maybe 3b QJo if you want to 3b.... but vs an UTG open, I call QJs and just muck QJo.
It change if you have some tell on this particular reg raise utg tendencies

With Old Lady, I’m checking the flop. Imagine she just checks back. She called the 3! so her hand is probably was better then yours to begin with and she probably ahead on the flop.

What was the point of the $50 flop bet? If you are going to c-bet, I’d c-bet more then $50 here if you are trying to take down the pot(pot is $143 here, going to get near 4-1 to call...she probably caught a piece of it and won’t fold in this spot...plus you bloat the pot...still think checking is best here).

Turn...I’d check again. Hope old lady is nice and checks back. Not a fan of shove here...risking $180 here for a draws that may not be the nuts. What hands are you putting her on?


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When an old lady flats a 3b she’s 100% ahead of QJs. Whether she hits the flop is another story and in this case she was very likely to. She basically missed KK/99 and a blocked JJ.

This flop is basically the nuts for an old lady having a 0% fold range.

Pretty spazzy hand, wich smells of being aggressive just for the sake of being aggressive. Forced aggression on autopilot is rarely very good, this hand is no exception.

pre flop seems ridiculous, after that it doesn't matter, good enough runout for you

too bad she's folding 0% tho

over-raising a UTG raise + tight CO call from out of position seems terrible, prefer to check the flop but i'm indifferent to the flop bet, sizing seems fine if she doesn't raise, probably just check the turn, she might give a free one and doubt she has a fold button plus you have implied odds on backdoored flush

Most of my posts to your HHs are of the same type that boil down to two main points:

1) Why are we building such a huge pot with such a mediocre hand?

2) Why are we taking an extremely high variance line when we are on a limited if-I-bust-I'm-lifebusto BR?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Against a typical UTG range, QJs is a call in the SB, not a three bet unless you’re very deep.
Way too aggressive after that as well. Old broad probably called you down with A2, it held. Let that be a reminder for future sessions how to play QJs in the SB.

It's not as bad as everyone is making it out. At a 6-handed table the Asian reg is probably super wide, even UTG. An old white lady would probably only 3-bet KK+ so she can be strong here, but she still has all the pocket pairs, low suited Aces, and most of the broadway combos that we can get to fold. I think she only calls the 3-bet with TT+ AJ suited+ AKo

Once she calls the 3 bet I would just check/fold since she will never bluff. If she checks back the flop we can possibly stab the turn for a small size to try and get her off KK and the few combos of KQ that may have called. We may even be able to scare her off AK/AJ if the diamond comes on the river, but she's never folding her AK/AJ if we bloat the pot too big like you did here.

Obviously your plan to 3-bet would work much better if you were deeper, but taking aggressive lines against scared money in short-handed games is super +EV

Thank you for the responses everyone. So here are the results:

Results:

Grunch: Way too aggro. The 3-bet is OK sometimes, but the turn jam is spew. Once an older woman calls the flop c-bet, I'm done with the hand. Sure she has some FDs in her range, but not many with the hearts on the board being so big in a 3-bet pot. Most of her range is AJ+

You're "done with the hand" when you turn an open ended straight flush draw to go with your 2nd pair?

The turn jam is probably EV-neutral against her entire range after you pick up the straight flush draw outs. You need 30% and you probably have 30% right on the dot. She has a value range in this spot literally 100% of the time. You can never fold, even if she jams behind you, but this is a pretty mediocre spot overall that you go with just because you can build a stack in a neutral scenario.

I don't think the turn jam is bad, but I don't think it's profitable vs. this V. For those few times when your opponent will check back AK/AJ here, the most profitable play here is a check because a free card is the most +EV result.

I didn't notice that, and I'm def not folding now that I realize it, but I still don't think I have any FE. I'd take the free card.

This.

For god's sake fold pre. You looked like you were having a glimmer of hope for redemption, and now you're just starting to spew stacks even when you're backed. Pre is just god awful, and flop is a clear check. Turn is fine ap but you're getting called almost always

^ 3bet pre is fine at a low freq and betting this flop 1/3 100% freq is totally fine. Turn jam is also fine.

Didnt see it was 6-max but in a vacuum this isnt going to be +EV.

Turn jam ap is fine and std.

Betting flop 1/3 is fine but we dont really need to deny equity. Ofc betting is +EV but i do like to have some checks on this board. If we get raised we cant call here

Pre sizing is good. Call and fold both ok also. Check flop. AP check turn. You don't have enough FE and you're not ahead.

Yes playing flop with both a bet and check range is totally fine (and more +EV) and QJ makes sense to check but simplying our strategy and betting 1/3 with range is also totally fine and a lot easier imo.

Pre is totally standard as a 3bet some of the time... yes vs a 5x open maybe we never need to 3bet QJs but ime if 5x is their normal open size their 5x opening range is still what it "should" be if they were using a smaller size like 2
5x. In other words people open too wide with the 5x sizing.

In a vacuum this hand is fine... id play it the same way if i chose to 3bet pre (which I would some of the time). Exploitatively sure we can just fold pre.

I give a point to the theory folks defending the 3bet pre. We're OOP so either winning now or lessening positional advantage postflop by lowering the SPR are good things. Also seems some here misread as we're 6 handed so it's more of an MP open. 3betting pre sometimes is fine here, especially in the SB.

I give a point to the more exploitative arguments postflop. Old ladies are fit or fold as ****. She didn't call pre with Q9 or JT. You are behind and have no fold equity, just check. Turn is a check too. It's normally a bet, yes, but again, there's no fold equity here against this villain type in a 3bet pot on that board. Let her give you a free card or make a silly small bet.