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1/3 KK facing massive flop overbet

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04-02-2016 , 08:46 PM

Mr. Curious

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,194

1/3 50-200

V is young 20s kid, hasn't played a hand in two orbits
H is 30s Asian dude, would be seen as LAG

V has 200, Hero covers

Preflop
Hero has KK in SB

3 limpers, Hero makes it 20 (standard), only V calls

Flop 995 r
Pot 40

Hero donks for 25, V pushes all in, hero ...

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04-02-2016 , 08:53 PM

samdabam

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 403

Wow, what a thought spot.

I would tend to folding if he seems solid and nitty, but it would really depend on my live read.

It just seems like such a bad spot to bluff, but he could be overvaluing a ton of pps against your image.

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04-02-2016 , 08:56 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,524

I make it a bit bigger pre. I go ~$18 from SB, +1BB/limper, prob an even $25, but meh.

I snap off the shove. He rarely has a 9 or 55 here, as the board is so dry he'd likely milk those hands. This looks a lot more like TT/JJ (or even 66-88) that is afraid of you catching your AK, so looking to end it now.

He's betting $155 in to 90. Your call will represent 38.75% of the $400 pot. I'm pretty confident we're good at least half the time, so we are getting a plenty good price, even with the overbet.

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04-02-2016 , 09:02 PM

Yenomez

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 491

Insta call.

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04-02-2016 , 10:02 PM

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yenomez

Insta call.

Yup

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04-02-2016 , 10:07 PM

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Hero snaps.

Sorry you got shown 9x.

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04-02-2016 , 11:13 PM

Discipline12

banned

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 597

You said 20 was a standard raise right. So if you're really viewed as a lag then v has to put you on a wide range. It feels like v might be playing 10 10 or JJ scared. Wish we had more info on v. I mean if there is some reason v specifically put you on QQ+ and v has a 9 then it's a great shove.

Other than that I think we have to call. But I definitely ask v a few questions first, like why so much? Do you have JJ? Do you want a call?

I mean he probably shoved because he is uncomfortable post flop, so take your time, the longer you make v wait the more likely he gives off a tell

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04-02-2016 , 11:22 PM

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

Fist-pump call.

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04-03-2016 , 12:45 AM

Mr. Curious

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,194

I don't think V had a clue. He was there with a girl he knew and just kind of sat there with a deer in headlights look.

Fwiw I was in BB and watching.

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04-03-2016 , 12:53 AM

#10

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,781

If V didn't have a clue, call, but that is also a little scary. He might just see the 9 in his hand and think that's what he's supposed to do.

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04-03-2016 , 01:45 AM

#11

Kler

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

I snap off the shove. He rarely has a 9 or 55 here, as the board is so dry he'd likely milk those hands. This looks a lot more like TT/JJ (or even 66-88) that is afraid of you catching your AK, so looking to end it now.

This is sound logic and will probably often be the case; without any further reads I think a call needing 38% equity must be correct. In actuality, though, my decision will be highly villain-dependent.

So OP, with the information you've given, I think you have to call. However, a fold is entirely possible, entirely within reason.

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04-04-2016 , 12:59 PM

#12

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,150

Got in 10% of our stack preflop and flopped an overpair HU with SPR 4ish. Is there any good reason Villain would ship smashing this dry flop?

GIsnapcallandfeelprettygoodaboutitG

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04-04-2016 , 01:33 PM

#13

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

Sometimes, clueless players just gift-wrap their money and put it on a silver platter for us.

Say 'Thank you, I call' as you accept the generosity of your opponent.

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04-04-2016 , 09:19 PM

#14

RunninCM

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,114

I am just starting to get into nl cash but isn't this a pretty standard hand all around?

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04-04-2016 , 10:58 PM

#15

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by samdabam

Why is this a tough spot? If you limped 9Tsuited and called a $20 raise from the SB then smash the board, would you jam? No... Almost never.

This is a fist pump call IMO.

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04-04-2016 , 11:01 PM

#16

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Curious

V is young 20s kid, hasn't played a hand in two orbits

Too small of sample size to get monsters under the bed syndrome here.

Also, put yourself in his shoes if he has 9T for example. Would you ever shove here? No never... GII GL

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04-05-2016 , 08:50 AM

#17

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

Quote:

Originally Posted by paratrooper99

Also, put yourself in his shoes if he has 9T for example. Would you ever shove here? No never... GII GL

Last night a guy shove $150 into a $20-ish pot. The board was AA3. He showed A3.

People are idiots.

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04-05-2016 , 09:09 AM

#18

YGOchamp

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,555

After reading this thread I will now start jamming all my nutted hands, thanks for the advice everybody!

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04-05-2016 , 09:22 AM

#19

ohsnapzbrah

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGOchamp

After reading this thread I will now start jamming all my nutted hands, thanks for the advice everybody!

Big difference is that you'll probably be the one raising preflop as opposed to being that player that limp/calls a large raise.

As for the hand, fairly easy call. This can easily be TT to QQ and even 66 to 88. Players are just scared to play their pairs aggressively preflop, but once they get a safe board will bet with ruthless aggression.

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04-05-2016 , 09:34 AM

#20

whorasaurus

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,210

Eh, I love calling in general, but I don't think this is quite the fistpump that the consensus advocates. But at the end of the day, this is the only thing that matters:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

He's betting $155 in to 90. Your call will represent 38.75% of the $400 pot. I'm pretty confident we're good at least half the time, so we are getting a plenty good price, even with the overbet.

So folding really isn't an option.

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04-05-2016 , 06:05 PM

#21

Mr. Curious

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,194

So after an agonizing amount of time followed by a "I just can't fold this hand. win or lose I go home", Hero calls.

V has a clueless look on his face as the board runs out.

Hero hesitantly shows KK and V kind of looks at the table, shrugs with the clueless look still on his face, folds, and leaves the table.

Hero is true to his word and racks his chips and leaves too...

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04-05-2016 , 06:10 PM

#22

Dubey

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,844

grunch.

eww.

I call but I don't feel great about it. It's only 75 bigs, and people sometimes spazz on paired boards because "it's hard for you to have anything"

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04-05-2016 , 06:28 PM

#23

Below Zero

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 848

Quote:

Originally Posted by paratrooper99

Why is this a tough spot?

He said it was a "thought" spot; not a "tough" spot

I tend to agree; I would need to think about this a bit before snapping. Really is player dependent.

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04-05-2016 , 06:40 PM

#24

Mr. Curious

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,194

Since people are considering folding before snap calling, do we expect the rest of the 1/3 / 2/5 players to be snap calling here or is there fold equity?

say we think they have TT-QQ and we have a 9, does a push here get them to commit before a scare card can come on the turn?

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04-05-2016 , 06:58 PM

#25

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,524

There is no FE here against the vast majority of LLSNL players. Weak-tights only. Most others will never consider folding an overpair, and the ones that consider it usually won't.

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