V (Mp, $350) - late 20's asian guy, seems to know the regs and dealers. Very loose pre, playing like 45/10 or something. Seems somewhat fit/fold, not particularly aggro, but not a total station either. Haven't seen him make any notable bluffs.

H (SB, covers) - mid 30's WG with glasses, jeans & T, chatty. Pretty legit TAG image with pretty high cbet %, been playing OOP a lot due to getting cards in EP and having a serious station on my left. Losing image but not too bad. Just got back from a smoke break and bought button, dealt JcJs.

Table has been very loose passive, one of those games where it's v hard to iso, limp calling $20 is the standard preflop strat for majority of table.

OTTH

4 limps including V, all loose passives.

H - 25, 3 calls

Flop (100) 5s8s5h
H 50
V call

Turn (200) 6d
H?

Bet 2/3 pot. No reason to think you're beat here. He can have overs, fd, pair lower than tp, tp, overpair. He can call with any of them. Only a 5, QQ-AA, or straight are ahead.

As you know at tables like this, our preflop sizing has little affect on number of callers we'll get (amirite?). Lol 8+x and 4ways? *Standard* Which kinda sets up stupid spots unless we're sitting fairly short and are comfortable committing postflop OOP thanks to getting in large percentages of stacks preflop. So I might prefer either (a) going even larger preflop or (b) rapping the table and just seeing a flop.

Postflop is why I do something different preflop, as all our options kinda suck. Even lol < 1/2 PSBs leaves us with < 1/2 PSB for the river. And yet good lucking having worse call you down multiway (apart from draws). I hate these spots, and think it's less about getting better in them (there's an awesome line available?) and more about simply avoiding them.

Ggrossspot,imoG

A 2/3 PSB will leave us with lol $145 left in a $460 pot on the river.

Gjustsayin'G

Vs. a loose passive, just bet/fold $75 - $100 or check/fold, although I like betting better. We should be good here often. If he calls, check/decide river unless it's a 5 or a J.

Shove turn. Size up on the flop IF taking this line.

GG - it was at the extreme end of the spectrum im(limited)e, i knew it was going 3-5 ways at 25, should have just gone 30-35.

Amana - stuffing was the plan, i just didnt math well and ended up with it being an overbet.

Java - i wasnt really considering folding. Makes me think there're two approaches. Either accepta multiway pot and keep it smallish so i can bet fold each street, ie 10-15 pre, 25/30 flop etc. Or, go gg huge pre and try and gii quick post, ie 35 pre, 60/70 flop, stuff turn.

tldr i didnt plan properly

Truth is the overbet on the turn isn't that bad anyway and you may not even benefit from sizing flop any differently than you did against loose passives. You can get wider calls, even 4 ways, and then just start checking (and mostly folding) on 8/S turns especially if more than on player calls. It doesn't matter if you're giving them a decent price on a FD type hand either because you aren't paying them off when spades fall, never letting them see river for a discount (by smashing turn), and rarely getting raised by FDs when you bet 50. 6 turn is not as good as some, but better than many, so just jam no that heads up. I won't nitpick about whether V was the first caller or the last caller on the flop - it changes his range a bit, but not enough to where it changes too much.

Ah yes. I made the post quickly while at work without doing the math.

What do yall think of a super small flop bet like 20-25. I like to lead out with these super small flop bets in dry boards to induce bluffs and keep ranges wide.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

what is the obsession with SPR and going all in 100+BB deep with overpairs on this forum? seems to me to be a way to get called by only better hands. or making it so huge preflop that you either win $10 or get stacked by a limped AA.

i think there is an argument for actually raising preflop smallish here if people are going to call anyway so you dont bloat the pot too much against multiple opponents. i also think checking is beyond stupid as it simply misses huge value. i know that raising small pre to like 3x isnt something anyone else is going to suggest, but if so explain to me why its wrong.

its almost like a fixed limit hand against a typical loose passive crowd. raising preflop is for value. then when you flop an overpair keep betting small and then fold to any aggression.

This wasn't 8x. It was about 4x. 3x would be 9 + 12 = 21 (4 limpers). 8x would have been 36.

If you're only getting called by better it sounds like you can profitably bluff often in this situation to make up for the times you get called and are beat.

Thanks for the comments.

Results - V calls with 57o FTW

What I mean is that OP made it a very large ~8x (i.e. $25) and yet still went lol 4ways to the flop.

I'm simply noting it as yet another example (i.e. standard) regarding how super large raise sizing can still get action (even too much action) at your typical LLSNL game (and yet my recommendations for super large preflop sizing are often poo-pooed).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm not convinced raising smallish gets you in a better spot. A small $10 raise is going a guaranteed 5ways after 4 limpers (perhaps even 6way if the BB comes along), which produces a fairly awkward SPR of ~7 OOP (maybe even less against smaller stacks). I think with most hands we should be aiming for either very small SPRs (easy peasy commitment postflop) or very large SPRs (gives us lots of room to play poker postflop without awkward commitment decisions factoring in).

Also really don't think we should be comparing it to Limit. In Limit due to the limited betting structure we are fine getting in as much as possible as likely an equity favourite on any street due to the remaining bets going in on later streets making up a very small percentage of the overall pot; in NL the bets going in on later streets (when we might not have the equity edge) can dwarf the bets going in on early streets (where we had the equity edge). And in SPR pots like ~7, we better hope our opponents are kind enough to raise us off our hand before the river, cuz otherwise a raise/bet/bet will normally unwittingly commit us (as will some check/calling OOP).

GcluelessNLnoobG