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1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board 1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board

12-09-2016 , 06:07 AM
Hero: Tighter, but V has only been at table for 30-45 min or show. Hero hasn't shown down any hands of significance.

V: late 50s early 60s WG who talked openly about playing poker at Encore and losing $100k+ at craps in a single year.

One hand of note. Hero raises from EP to $20 gets 2 callers. Flop A73dd, V SB donks $50, H folds.

OTTH Effective stacks $520ish, hero barely covers V

H is UTG w KK raises to $18. Gambooly 20s asian calls MP, V calls SB

Flop ($57) 39Q
V donks $35, Hero thinks for 30ish seconds and raises to $90. MP folds

Turn ($231) <-- -6 for rake J
V donks $110

Hero?
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 06:09 AM
Constructing what seems to be a massive range here should be fun, but I'm tired and need to sleep. Work tomorrow.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 08:24 AM
You raised on the flop and he called. Then he still donked into you on the turn. Seems like he is very strong.

You have about $300 behind going to the turn and you built the pot to $234 on the turn.

You probably should have known what you were going to do on the turn before making the flop raise.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 09:12 AM
If we are going to raise the flop, our raise is too small.
He's still getting a great price between his DO and IO.
We should be raising to $110+ here when we raise.

As played, I'm still ok to shove it in here.
Villain would have to be a pretty decent sized fish to bet/call the flop with QJ here, and there are no combos of QJcc/QJss that he can have to have reasonably be ahead of us.
And there are still lots of JXss combos, and AQs combos left in his range (as well as lots of sets, but oh well).
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 09:20 AM
Why so much pre? $18 and $20 seem on the high side for EP. I'd rather go a bit lower to avoid building a massive pot oop. If people are calling ridiculous bet sizes, I'd bet $35-40 to get a significantly lower SPR and gii over two streets.

I hate the flop raise. Don't over expose your overpair. If MP or V come over the top, you probably have to fold. Call, disguise your hand strength, and let V barrel off again. You want to get value from draws over two streets.

As played, you're in a bad spot on the turn. Huge pot and villain is still barreling. Looks like a fold or shove spot. Calling the turn and folding on the river would be a huge mistake. I lean toward a shove because you still have six outs to save you if he has a set. There are plenty of combo draws that might bet here and they won't call a river bet if they miss.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 09:56 AM
Even if he has the perfect draw, JsTs, he only has 12 outs because you have 1 spade & 2 of the kings. That's 24% equity going into the Turn & he charged himself too much unless he expects you to pay OTT if he catches. Which you will, 4% of the time, when a King comes.

Agree with Eddie - don't raise the flop.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 10:16 AM
I think $18 pre is fine if that's the table norm or at least your norm. I'd rather go larger from UTG than smaller, which might get the whole table to call.

I don't mind the raise on the flop on such a drawy board, but I'd go a little higher. Calling would be OK, too.

It kind of looks as if V is either setting his price for river or trying to gii, but unfortunately w/o more info, we don't know which one.

Agree turn looks like fold or shove, and I vote shove. I think he's drawing. Worse case is bad with only three outs to the nuts, but I'd still shove.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 11:52 AM
I like raising the flop, but I go bigger.

The board is very draw heavy and flatting allows Villain to dictate the pace of this hand. Our hand is ahead of most of his range here but is also vulnerable, so I'm happy to pop it up to $120 or so.

If we raise flop, we need to be prepared to play for stacks on a brick turn.

As played, I'm jamming this turn. If Villain has it, so be it. The turn card isn't a total brick but shouldn't have helped most of his draws.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 12:04 PM
Dude. The double donk (donk,call raise,donk) is the most infuriating thing in live poker.

I am on raging tilt now OP.

Also shove and fade like 80% of the deck likaboss.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 12:18 PM
I am flatting. Glad to hopefully showdown.

He probably has all 9 combos of QJ, and 16 AQ.

Line isn't consistant for a draw. But most of his Queens have some type of draw.

Alot of scare cards that can come. If he fires river. We are in tough spot.

But I can't see GII here as +EV

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 01:01 PM
Deep and OOP I'd typically limp/reraise KK in EP, but our raise did manage the field to just 3ways and with us only OOP to 1 player, so not a bad result. SPR is 9ish so not bad either (gives us a little room to play, although anyone could just PSB each street for stacks if they wanted to).

Are we cool playing for stacks with an SPR of ~9 having gotten in just 3.5% of our stack preflop? I'm not, so I just call the flop donk. Raising automatically puts stacks in play, so I hope we're cool with that.

As advertised, the turn bet is now for stacks (as we'll only have a 2/3 PSB left if we call). I hope before we raised the flop we had a plan for what to do if he reraised or donked the turn. I'm guessing we do (???), so I'd implement that plan now (I'd fold).

Ghaveaplan,imoG
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 07:29 PM
Thanks for the replies all. Most are in-step with what I was thinking after the hand. Def. agree on the flop sizing being too small. Not going big enough on flop raises one of my leaks for sure.

This is the second time in recent memory I felt I could have left myself better odds for a turn shove against Villain's ranges.

GG, I knew I could count on you to advocate the limp-reraise. And it definitely was a thought. Especially, because I had already planned on leaving when the big blind hit men regardless of my hand/outcome. There was definitely enough raising going on pf to warrant giving it a shot.

As for just calling the donks, I guess I see the merit, but I don't like giving such easy odds on a drawey flop to two players. I also don't like giving up control of the aggression in the hand. <--- maybe that's a leak.
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 07:37 PM
Dont limp reraise, dont raise flop. Call.

Turn sucks, but cant do anything other than jam
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-09-2016 , 08:12 PM
His donk on the turn (as opposed to a check) makes his range very strong. We've given him no reason to think that us shipping turn isnt a super realistic option, which would be the worst possible outcome for a draw for him. I think he mostly chekcs his draws. Id expect villain to show up with 33, 99 or Q9 a large percentage of the time so id fold turn
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote
12-10-2016 , 01:00 AM
Shows up with QJ a lot i think too
1/3 Hero faces turn donk bet with overpair against super wet board Quote

      
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