Villain 1 is laggy, but somewhat competent. He's certainly capable of switching gears. Seen him raise a fairly wide range from mid position and has decent postflop skills. He can bluff big and read hands reasonably well.

Villain 2 is pretty straightforward. Haven't played with him as much but appears mostly ABC.


Hero (550)
Villain 1 (covers)
Villain 2 (450)

Hero dealt AA in the CO.

7 handed. Villain 1 UTG raises to 15. Villain 2 reraises to 50 in LJ. Hero raises to 125. Only Villain 1 and Villain 2 call.


Flop (375)

J33r

Checks through. I motioned to bet like 150 but then pull it back and check. I figured I'm unlikely to be outdrawn and I wanted to give other players a decent chance to think they're ahead so they can much more easily pay off for stacks with a second best hand. As far my stack is concerned, it's a two street affair.


Turn (375)

Jd. Puts backdoor on the board.

Villain 1 checks. Villain 2 now bets 150. I call. Villain 1 calls.


River (825)

Villain 1 bets 200. Villain 2 calls. Hero is now getting 6:1. It's very plausible that both Villain 1 and Villain 2 both have weaker overpairs. I'm not sure what odds I actually need though. Villain 1 being not a complete fool could have a jack or QQ/TT/99. It seems very close though.

I figured I'm unlikely to be outdrawn and I wanted to give other players a decent chance to think they're ahead so they can much more easily pay off for stacks with a second best hand. As far my stack is concerned, it's a two street affair.

Huh!? You're at an SPR of 1 on a J33 board. What do you think their ranges are? Any pocket pair that improves is going to beat you. Either bet $100 now with plans to shove the turn, or just shove now.

If either has JJ, then "good hand, Sir."

You bet like 20% on the flop. Like $60-70. As played im never folding.

I like the 1.5x 4B size pre. But we need to c-bet this flop, like 100%. Bet around $80-90. We're missing value by checking back.

What was the river card?

V1's donk bet of 1/4 pot is unlikely to be a bluff. I'd think one of them has Jx here a lot. It's also unlikely that they both have KK/QQ. Few 1/3 players are going to turn TT or 99 into a bluff here.

I'm not folding, but I'm also not raising. It's just a square call.

River is 4 offsuit.

You think it's better to get the money in over three streets? As others mentioned before, there's really no way the money doesn't get in with this SPR but it's just how to get it in. The sizing on the river and the fact there was an overcall on the turn was so weird it almost seemed like can get away. Doesn't seem correct given odds though.

I personally think flop jams are mostly errors as compared to three streets. Sizing your value like this, imagine how painful it is to deal with your bluffs. You can bet 20% pot on the flop with mostly value and the little bit of air you have is getting massive ROI on any fold equity. What can they even do with hands like 77?

If they fold much at all you just print with your bluffs

if they call, more likely than not they see another like 20-30% pot bet on the turn, running into the same issue

If they jam, you call with everything that beats rhem and fold our your bluffs and they value own themselves

Agree with Tomark about c-betting small on the flop. But I'd be doing so with the intention of trying to get stacks in on the turn.

We're starting out $450 effective with V2. If we bet around 1/4 pot on the flop, say $90, and V1 calls, then V2 is probably folding. If V1 folds, then V2 is probably calling. Either way, we'll most likely be heads up going to the turn, with $555 in the middle, which makes for an easy jam with less than 1 SPR.

If we bet $90 into $375, the pot will be $465 coming around to V1. There's a decent chance one or the other just check-jams with Jx, QQ, or KK. If they both call the flop, then the pot is bigger, and jamming the turn is even easier.

As played, we can't fold, but I think we misplayed this by checking back on the flop. Maybe V1 is bluffing, and maybe V2 is making a light call, and we made more by checking back, but I think this line is losing value on most run-outs.

At these stacks, pretty much any reraise to $100+ offers opponents horrendous odds and sets us up for a trivial postflop stackoff on all but the worst boards. Think I'm cool with our sizing, although against a straightforward player who is 3betting preflop we can prolly assume a monster and thus size up if we want to.

Obviously we can get in stacks whenever we want at this super small SPR. And I'm not going to hate on a flop checkback because we are literally never going to bluff here 3ways in a 4bet pot, lol. Still, I might just bet lol $50 or whatever to get the ball rolling (and even Ax might have a hard time folding to this sizing). Also don't want to risk a A/K rolling off versus QQ, etc.

I also just call the turn to entice the other guy to come along and to prevent hero folds. Very unlikely anyone has a naked Jx especially with us having AA (i.e. eliminating a lot of AJ, as if we're shown that in a 4bet pot anyways).

So for me the only question on the river is whether to just call or shove in the extra $75. We're probably leaving money on the table by not putting in the extra $75 (as uncomfortable as it may seem to do that).

GcluelessNLnoobG

With an SPR under 1, this is just a jam on the flop. The villains are thinking even you have AA, they have 2 outs twice. If you have AK and are bluffing, they are ahead.

Jamming on a locked down board misses out on a lot of value.

River seems like a fold. V1 is going to overcall then donk with QQ? Highly unlikely.

no offense but i think this advice doesn't work for the modern game. maybe 2010 when people were ultra calling stations.

You lose value by shoving on the flop. What's the idea behind that? Think about all the hands you can get value from by c-betting 25% 88-99-TT-KJ-KK-QJ-QQ (I imagine V1 being laggy could have some really bad hands like QJ or KJ here). It makes no sense to go all in and eliminate all of those hands with the exception of QQ-KK-JJ. I think QQ would almost likely call a shove but I prefer c-betting small, it's just the perfect move. AP: clear call