With an SPR of < 2, two pair, no aggression on the flop with such a large field, and the 5c is a giant brick, I see no way to get away from this hand even with a bet of 75.
Let's look at the action thus far. NO ONE liked their hand pre-flop. Everyone was willing to pay to see another card. What are the ranges that call here?
Any xdxd, AJo could limp preflop and be happy with TPTK. JT, QJ, KJ, 54s, 54o, A6, A3, also can pay to see another card. The only hands that the 5c helps are 42s, 42o, 64s, 64o, and some really stupid calls with 65s, 65o.
A set should have spoken up with "oh crap, a flush draw, gotta raise". In short, you're ahead of almost everything that calls $20 on the flop but doesn't raise.
Taking Garick's suggestion of 75 on the turn, with $121 out there already, and even one opponent shoving, that's a pot of 271+125 with 125 remaining in your stack and I can't find a fold. So, B/F 75 isn't an option for me.
Now comes the whole bet sizing dilemma, where if you bet $75 and the first person calls, then any straight draw and any flush draw is priced in. The flush is the obvious concern, as the only straight card that is an almost auto c/f on the river is a 4. The 4d is an obvious insta-muck.
Shoving for 200 on the turn is really bad because the ONLY hand that calls you has you beat. Risking 200 to win 121 on fold equity alone is bad. I'm thinking $90-$100 OTT and if you get raised, go to the felt. Worst case scenario is someone with 18% equity sucks out on the river. Shove any river brick, but there are few bricks left. Any diamond is bad, A and K are bad, 4 is bad. That's 21 cards out of 46 that are not good for you. Pray for a jack on the river so KJ and AJ will pay you off.
Bet 70. You probably should be bet/folding, but the 5 just makes SO many worse two pairs in limped pots I'm probably just stacking off here. But man getting four callers sucks. This is a pretty ****ty spot.
With an SPR of < 2, two pair, no aggression on the flop with such a large field, and the 5c is a giant brick, I see no way to get away from this hand even with a bet of 75.
5c is no kind of brick at all. It fills gutshots. It also turns 56s into two pairs, and OESDs and combo draws with gutties into one pair, but most V's won't raise with those hands, but rather just call again, giving us nice value.
The fact of the matter is that V's almost never semi-bluff raise turns in LLSNL, and even on flops it is much rarer than it should be. If raised on this turn, SPR be damned, we're beat. SPR doesn't really apply to five-way hands on the turn anyway. Only way we should consider calling is if the raise is small enough and gets enough callers to give us pot odds to draw to 4 boat outs.
5c is no kind of brick at all. It fills gutshots. It also turns 56s into two pairs, and OESDs and combo draws with gutties into one pair, but most V's won't raise with those hands, but rather just call again, giving us nice value.
It's a brick in relation to v's hand strength improving over ours. The only hand it connects with hard enough to beat us is a gutterball, which is a pathetic call and huge error by V. Yes, it can give someone else a pair or 2 pair, but a WORSE 2 pair. It's a PRETTY brick, but in no logical way does it improve Vs hand over ours.
in no logical way does it improve Vs hand over ours.
You are correct (though overstating) that it turns few hands into ones that beat ours, but it turns a lot of hands into ones we can get more value from. That is why we b/f, to get more value from Vs' large calling range. If their raising range crushes us, though, we should then fold. Readless multi-way, their raising range crushes us here, IMO.
And yes, V's will call flop with gutshots in games like this all day long, especially if a chain of callers give them what they think are good pot odds.
