Hi All,

To preface this... I don't C/R very often. Mostly because I don't really know when the best time is to do so. I'm guessing on a basic level: when we believe we have decent fold equity, and also have good equity ourselves. When worse hands can call, some better might fold?

Fairly loose table at this point. People chasing gutshots like none other; 2 villains are limp calling with anything. Main V1 is new but is loud and has been drinking a little and is at MP2; MP3 is fairly new as well.


OTTH:
UTG (~$200) straddles to $6
MP1 (~$500) (V2), MP2 (~$300) (V1), MP3 (~$150) all call
BTN calls
Hero (~$350) is the BB and has Qd8d and decides to just call.
UTG checks option

Flop (~$36): Ad Qh 8h
Hero checks. MP1 checks. V1 bets $20. MP3 calls Folds to me. Hero just calls… UTG folds. 3-way

Turn (~$96): 6c
Hero checks. V1 bets $50. MP3 calls. Hero calls. 3-way.

River (~$246): As
Hero checks. V2 bets $100. MP3 folds. Hero?

FWIW villain did talk on this street a little. On the turn after he bet, I asked to see his stack. He gives me like this stare (trying to intimidate? No idea what he was doing) and just like puts his hands up so I can see but with some attitude. On the river after he bet $100 I tanked a little and he said things along the lines of “he doesn’t have nothing” etc.



So for me the river is fairly easy fold. Is preflop an easy fold too? Idk. I was just fairly confident original straddler would check; big pot and so decided to just see a flop for fun. Kind of a hit it hard or just fold kind of thing.

On the river, I mean I was tempted to call at first because this villain could definitely be betting aggressively with the flush draw. As mentioned, villain was drinking a bit and was loud and seemed to be a bit of a gambler… but just did not see him firing that 3rd bullet on a missed flush draw after 2 callers each street. I know I do not beat value bets here. MP3 did not worry me as much either and could have been chasing draws.

The real question from me here is at what point should I have C/R’d? Flop? Turn? As mentioned, I do not check raise often at all, and want to know how and when I can pick out my spots to be profitable. Thanks all.

I think you could have CR'd either the flop or the turn. On the flop you have a BD flush draw, and on the turn your hand isn't improving very often. In fact, it is much more likely that your opponent's hand will improve (or CF your 2 pair).

A CR would have probably won the pot right there a decent amount of time.

I generally lead out in these spots, and big like $30. This flop rates to get you action. I'll continue with a turn barrel unless it's an Ace. If the flush comes in OTT, what I do depends on how many players and what reads I have.

C/r flop has merits but is a little too strong. We don't want to blow out Ax and it kinda sucks if we get raised back. On this exact flop, I would like c/r with a hand like A2 where we can fold out better Aces and get called by worse FDs.

As played OTR, I'd fold. He likely has the Ace and if he somehow has KQ, we're still beat. He could have a busted draw but then I doubt he would have made that comment about you not having anything.

@DTLB - even though a C/R is strong on the flop and might just blow people out.. arent we kind of cool taking down this pot now? pretty wet board... so many players in. already $100 in the pot and even though we have a strong hand there are quite a few scary rivers or turns. with rags like Q8, just C/R and taking down $100 seems like a fine deal?

Regarding the Ah2h - this is along the idea of where we can get better hands to fold (as we don't expect to see AK/AQ and even AJ/A10 on a loose table) - and we can fold out A3-A8 maybe? And we also have equity if we get callers with the flush draw?

Sure, nothing wrong with c/r right away. Definitely a viable line. Only thing about the c/r is that you have to know players behind will bet. On this flop with so many players, it's almost a guarantee. But if it comes like Q84r and you have 84 in the BB and it was a limped pot, you're better off just leading out because there's no guarantee anyone will bet such a raggedy flop.

Grunch:

Next time raise the turn.

As played, Hollywood and muck.

Edit: Fold or raise PF.

@trucdouf - how would you weigh out C/R (when you raise I'm assuming you mean C/R?) flop vs. the turn? or are both perfectly fine to you as well?

fold pre

I also lead the flop. So much worse that can call us.

Preflop is fine. You can actually either call (good pot odds), fold (not exactly a great hand), or optimistically raise (to get heads up since no-one is strong).

You HAVE to raise flop (c/r is fine and probably best since you do want to fold out some hands). There are 14 cards you won't like on the turn multi-way (9 hearts, 2 aces, 3 cards that pair top pair's kicker), plus lots of cards that can improve one of your villains hand enough to float turn bet (four flushes and open-ended draws with pair).

PF is fine getting 11:1 unless UTG likes to raise his straddle frequently. Flop I just lead out for close to pot to get value from Ax, c/r somewhat overreps your hand and just folds out a lot of the hands you want to get value from. If I do check flop though, I'm definitely c/r for value as this board is sopping wet.

First: The only way I'm playing it is if I raise pre, but I'm almost always folding this.

Assuming this, I'm leading flop for 2/3 pot. After that probably betting turn, but river is so gross idk what to tell you.

As long as we don't think straddler is going to pop it, I'm cool with preflop. I typically don't play non A/K 3 gappers even if they are suited, and I'm not in love with being OOP, but I just don't think we can pass up this price pretty much closing the action.

On this drawy board I would probably just donk and go from there.

As played, I don't think I really feel committed against V1 (although I do against the much shorter MP3). I think I'm ok with just calling, but then again this is a fairly weak bet (would he really do this with a hand that is beating us)? I big check/raise at this point might be better, but I tend to play bottom two pair as a fairly weak hand.

Ditto for turn. Again, I think I would be more for bet/betting this myself, but as played I don't mind just calling down here, with the main thought being "don't go broke in a limped pot".

On the river out hand is worthless and no one is bluffing into 2 opponents especially when MP3 is basically committed with any piece. Easy check/fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG