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1/3 Facing 3 donk leads with TP on dry board

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08-03-2015 , 08:39 PM

6betfold

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,388

1/3, Effective: $350

Hero raises to $15 with AQo on the button against one EP limper, both blinds and limper call

($60) Flop: A34r
Blinds check, Limper bets $50, Hero ?

We have no reads since this is our first orbit.

The "standard" play here is to CALL and EVALUATE because it is too early to fold and raising gets worse to fold and only better to call without specific reads that our V is a station.

Hero calls, blinds fold

($160) Turn: 8x
V bets $80, Hero calls

($320) River: 9x
V bets $100, Hero ?

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08-03-2015 , 08:56 PM

Nozsr

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,722

Absent reads we don't know where we are.

Some UTG limpers like to limp AK for just this kind of spot.

And some limpers will limp any A.

$80 on the turn is half the pot.

$100 on the river is "only" a third of the pot.

Not a good plan to call the $80 and then fold to the $100.

Still expensive variance if we get shown AK, A3, A4, 33 or 44.

More fun if we get shown something else.

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08-04-2015 , 12:18 AM

RAHZero

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,706

Without any reads provided on V, I'm calling down here. Don't see any value in a shove and not folding river getting 4:1. Raising flop/turn would be bad since as you noted, you mostly just get worse hands to fold and better to call.

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08-04-2015 , 01:20 AM

Warsaw12

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 71

I think calling flop is probably fine as long as a guy is going to keep firing into you with worse Ax.

OTT I think we can consider folding sometimes as most players arnt double barreling air or weak Ax.

Same applies to river.

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08-04-2015 , 01:04 PM

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,176

I'm assuming preflop result (i.e. 4ways) is unexpected. The difference between HU and 4ways is hugenormous: HU would be an easy peasy SPR of 11 where we can take multiple easy non-commitment lines versus now we're in an SPR 5.5 pot (where anyone can put us to easy commitment).

I'd also probably call the flop bet and evaluate what happens.

Readless, I'm probably done with the hand on the turn. The Villain is setting things up for stacks on the river, and I'm not thrilled with playing for stacks right now having given him 25+ implied odds preflop.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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08-04-2015 , 01:19 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6betfold

We have no reads since this is our first orbit.

although we never saw him play anything, we should still look at the guy. Does he have messed up white hair half bald looks about 70 years old with his chips all over the place instead of neatly stacked or is he 21 wearing headphones and shuffling chips

basically when you call the flop, he knows you probably have an ace and he still bet hp ott knowing this.

If it's the first guy I described I would call the turn and if it's the second guy I would probably fold. There could be a lot of Axs hands in there and a set would still probably donk out just in case it got checked around in a 4way pot.

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08-04-2015 , 02:17 PM

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

Never folding. I've seen Vs do this with literally any Ax way too often, particularly with mid-strength Ax like AJ/AT, to fold this without reads.

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08-04-2015 , 05:13 PM

smmcoy

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 367

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6betfold

The "standard" play here is to CALL and EVALUATE because it is too early to fold and raising gets worse to fold and only better to call without specific reads that our V is a station.

You can fold this flop. If you were heads-up, had a reasonable chance of improving, or had seen the Villain donk-bluff, then calling is standard.

This hand is typical in that on the turn and river there's nothing to evaluate, so if you're going to call the flop, you should probably call the turn and river, especially getting such good odds.

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08-06-2015 , 10:07 AM

eldiesel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,585

Fold otf. If he donked $25 it'd be different, he bet 80% pot. I'm going to put the link to this thread into the thread where I said a more than half-PSB donk by a preflop limp/caller is killing TPTK.

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08-06-2015 , 10:19 AM

#10

Mind_Taker

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 47

I know you said you have no reads, but what type of person is this? Old/young? Male/female? Asian? Chatty/quiet?

Without any reads, I guess I'm calling down here. Flop bet is quite large and is in line with two-pair type hands, but I could just as easily see aces worse than AQ doing this too.

The most interesting decisions are on the flop and turn, if it's an old man betting the flop then I could see a fold on either the flop or turn because I don't see them betting AJ or worse like this. Once you reach the river, it's a pretty trivial call because you are going to win the pot enough to justify the call.

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08-06-2015 , 10:47 AM

#11

6betfold

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,388

So are we calling 3 streets if V bet 1/2 PSB on flop, turn and river?

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08-06-2015 , 11:40 AM

#12

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

I am, for the reasons I stated above.

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