V1 (BB): middle aged Asian guy, no reads ($200)
V2 (BTN): 20s black guy, no reads (covers)
V3 (SB): 50s white guy, no reads ($500)
Hero (UTG+2): late 20s Asian guy, just sat ($700)

Hero opens $15 in UTG+2 with J9. Villains call.

Flop: 874 ($55)

Checked to hero. Hero ???

Check...? Why do you feel like this is a borderline between x and bet?


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Very borderline open from early pos with J9 suited. At the average Vegas 1/3 table, i would guess this is a -EV open, or at least extremely close to it. If it is at an easy table to navigate where everybody is playin deep stacks like $600+, it can be an ok open from early pos for mixing up purposes,better board coverage and not having a transparent or an easy to read early pos range.

Multiway on this flop a bet is pretty spewy. Clear check.

As long as you're not opening 100% of the time in EP w/ J9s I don't mind it.

This is a definite flop bet for me. I'm betting 30 here.

Deep BTN yet to act, I'm checking.

It's not borderline. This flop may be coordinated but it's also a rag flop where I can barrel multiple streets especially with the backdoor hearts and overcards. And I just have to get through BTN to have position for the rest of the hand. BTN can't just raise or float light with two other people in the hand. If I check and BTN bets I have to fold because I can't x/c a weak ish draw OOP and then turn it into a bluff on bricks later if I cap my range now.

Also forgot to quote guy who said opening J9s in EP is -EV in Vegas 1/3...why? If it's nitty we can get away with opening more. If this was a crazy game at the Bike or Commerce in LA, I probably would open fold it.

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V1 (BB): middle aged Asian guy, no reads ($200)
V2 (BTN): 20s black guy, no reads (covers)
V3 (SB): 50s white guy, no reads ($500)
Hero (UTG+2): late 20s Asian guy, just sat ($700)

Hero opens $15 in UTG+2 with J9. Villains call.

Flop: 874 ($55)

Checked to hero. Hero bets $35. BTN and SB fold. BB calls.

Turn: Q ($125)

BB checks. Hero ???

Not gonna comment on pre.

Flop is probably a 2/3 pot bet we shouldnt rly be giving up with double backdoors but exploitatively 4-way i am checking and folding vs a BTN bet. BTN shouldnt be stabbing light vs 3 players and we should almost never really have FE otf and we have J high 4-way, so if he bets it’s w.e.

Ott think we should be betting imo once we arrive there, probably barreling a lot of rivers to get hum off missed spades and weak pair + draw

As played, if you are going to bet turn, be prepared to bet most rivers. Have FE vs. hands like TT/8X/76/66 besides getting FD draws to fold.

Villain has $150 behind on turn. A bet has to be a shove. $65 and then $85 doesn't sound right to me. Problem with shoving turn I think is that he's gonna have a lot of pair plus draws or just draws that beat jack high. I think I can take a free card and use the information I pick up on the river to make a decision. Problem with checking turn is that I can't just shove any river.

^^ nvm didnt notice he was 66bb eff.

Turn this shallow def a check, not jamming ever

Y, I thought V was BTN, not BB, my bad. Check.

V1 (BB): middle aged Asian guy, no reads ($200)
V2 (BTN): 20s black guy, no reads (covers)
V3 (SB): 50s white guy, no reads ($500)
Hero (UTG+2): late 20s Asian guy, just sat ($700)

Hero opens $15 in UTG+2 with J9. Villains call.

Flop: 874 ($55)

Checked to hero. Hero bets $35. BTN and SB fold. BB calls.

Turn: Q ($125)

Checked through.

River: K ($125)

BB bets $35. Hero ???

Late to the game here.

I bet flop and check turn as others have said.

River is interesting. Really smells like a hand like KX that hit top pair on the river. Not sure you rep enough to shove here and get him to fold, so I think I just let it go.

I don't like preflop (continually getting our money in with the worst of it OOP against shallow stacks isn't going to work out great long term, imo) but seems we're skipping that.

I check the flop and hope to get a free card. We have some equity with our overs + gutshot (all possibly not clean) but I'm not sure it's enough to want to bet and risk getting raised 4ways.

ETA: As played, on the turn I might lean to a bet. The board was drawy and we didn't get check/raised, so decent chance our opponent is on a draw (we might actually be ahead, lol) or have a very difficult decision with just one pair (especially now that an overcard has come which hits our range). If called, I probably check back the river UI as I think our J high actually has some showdown value against small draws.

ETA: As played, he's got << PSB on the river so I don't think a jam is going to get many folds. Yeah, our AK got there but if he was super worried about that would he donk?

The biggest problem I have with our overall line is that we are readless which means our opponents are readless. Do they have a fold button? How do they see us (we're a young Asian male, I'll let people draw their own conclusions of how we're seen)? I'd really like to be up against a guy who I know has a fold button who sees me as a nit before attempting this sort of stuff.

GcluelessNLnoobG

V1 (BB): middle aged Asian guy, no reads ($200)
V2 (BTN): 20s black guy, no reads (covers)
V3 (SB): 50s white guy, no reads ($500)
Hero (UTG+2): late 20s Asian guy, just sat ($700)

Hero opens $15 in UTG+2 with J9. Villains call.

Flop: 874 ($55)

Checked to hero. Hero bets $35. BTN and SB fold. BB calls.

Turn: Q ($125)

Checked through.

River: K ($125)

BB bets $35. Hero shoves for about $150. BB snap folds.

I think it's close, but my strategy checking back the turn was to pick up a bet sizing tell on the river which I got, as well as because I don't think I have enough fold equity (he might call pair + draw), but might fold a hand like 76s if the river bricks out or in this case is scary.

GG he donked, but I think that 30% sizing is meaningful and tells a lot about how he feels about his hand. Classic Ed Miller "attack weakness avoid strength" spot to shove imo.

The thing is that because we're readless we don't really know if this is a betsizing tell or not. It could simply be, "huh, the raiser must not have anything since he checked the turn and I really want to get paid off, or possibly I have no idea what I'm doing, so I'll bet $35". I'd be more cool with the betsizing tell idea if we were fairly certain we knew what it meant, but here it seems we're guessing. We could be up against the nittiest nit in the game (where we should snap fold cuz he's betting the nuts), we might be up against the lol donkiest fish in the game (where we might have to snap fold again cuz he's got like a Q and how can he possibly fold that), we have no clue.

GimoG

Such fps by the op, just burning money preflop and on the flop. On the river you can jam and he'll call with all kings and 2p+ and fold everything else. Not sure how profitable that will be but when he bets 30% pot that's a good time to try it.

You are absolutely correct. That's exactly why I shoved.

Are you saying that if he had bet $70 you would have snap-folded?

Without any hesitation.