Thanks for the discussion all. Results:


Flop (~$75): Kh 7h 6d
Hero checks. Villain bets $70. SB folds. Hero shoves. Villain snap calls and shows AA.

I didn't want to just turn this into a bad beat thread by the way. My main concerns were really about the 3-betting, and to just confirm that 100% I should be getting it in here vs my described villain. This is just one of those times where I run into the very top of his wide range, correct?

My reasoning for shoving was simply I didn't want to get leveled off my hand if some nasty cards came, even though I should rarely be folding here I guess. I did think if I just check/called villain would be barreling again even with QQ/JJ/KQ/AQ etc a decent portion of the time.



Also, if people are still interested in the thread, I had a specific question about reasons why we 3-bet AK and reasons why we don't 3-bet AK? And I understand that we do it for value, usually. But what makes it for value? When we think our villains have a wide range and are aggro?

+1 to pretty much everything Lapidator have said in this thread, nice work.


OP: 3 bet for value is when we believe we are in front of villains opening range, and even more so if we believe he will call us with worse hands. AK generally qualify as a 3 bet for value against most opponents but the uber nits, and 110 percent for value against an aggro monkey who opens 4-2 from MP.


Reasons to not 3 bet it can be many, for example: villain is a tight OMC nitish player so his openingrange is very strong and we dont believe he will call us with lot of worse hands if we 3 bet (aka there basically is noe value from 3 betting AK), we maybe want to give aggro monkeys rope to barrell into us postflop by slowplaying AK preflop and that way undersell our hand, or maybe we feel that we can make more money in the hand by just calling with AK.


Also what some players fail to realize is that just because we have AK in our 3 bet range, doesent mean that we have to 3 bet it every single time we get dealt AK.

A lot of 3betting AK for me also comes down to the dead money currently in the pot; in this case, there's $50 which is a significant amount when compared to stacks (risk vs reward is worth it).

Gclueless3betnoobG

I understand. I mean when I flat with AK, a lot of the time is when my thinking alongs with this: where I feel like a) the flop will not go more than 3-way. So if I am closing the action or on the button and believe the blinds are unlikely to just hop on the ride. b) if it does not go multi-way and I feel like I can extract value even if an A/K flop; so if V's range includes AQ/KQ/AJ/A10/KJ and if they're likely to over-value their top pair, allowing me to let them barrel into me.

Not sure if that makes sense and if that's reasonable. I should probably 3-bet my AK more frequently than I have been. I think a big part of it is just me losing with AK so much. I think I got AK maybe 4 times in this session (which was like only 3 hours) and I lost every single time - which I am guessing is ringing alarm bells for everyone, but I didn't feel like I played it poorly. I just did standard opens, 3-way to the pot or heads up to the pot, and just whiffed every single time. Tried c-betting a couple of them and just didn't work. Had to check/fold one of them. But this is just me being results-orientated, which is leading to a faulty bias I guess.

Your reasoning here in the first part makes perfect sense, thats the kind of thing i was talking about.

AK becomes a RIO hand under the wrong conditions, but is a slam dunk 3 bet for value against others. Thats the far left and far right situations: then its alot of stuff in between of course wich can be more difficult to judge. Like you said an OMC or a nit will often default to folding the hands you want in the hand like KQ, AQ or AJ if you 3 bet AK against them. So if you 3 bet pre you will often just win their preflop open and win a small pot- OR you lose a big pot when they are in there with QQ-KK or AA.

If you just call pre however against those types of villains, they will treat KQ as the nutz on K high board or AJ/AQ as the nutz on A high boards.

Regarding you being gunshy because you lost some pots with AK last session is understandable,we all goes through that sort of periods- however its dangerous to put too much weight on shortterm results like this. It may be you played all the 4 pots good, even if you lost them all, unfortunately thats how it goes some sessions. The important thing is to try not to lose focus due to shortterm negative results: keep focus on try doing the things you know are +EV, and dont give up if you feel like you fail a session or two.


Ive been advocated several times from very good players and posters on this forum to choose one thing at the time to focus on the next couple of sessions: aka take small steps when trying to improve and incorporate new elements into your game. I will recommend the same thing to you. If 3 betting AK (or become better at just playing AK for that matter) is important to you, lets say you focus on that element the next couple of sessions. That will be your main goal.


Also,hence this topic i will recommend reading Sol readers 3 betting AK discussion thread in the best of stickies, for some valuable input and perspectives.