How else would you play this hand other than folding pre flop? this game plays bigger than 1/3 sometimes on weekends can't see a flop for under $45 avg. Was the jam correct here?https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxo4VDNWN...4BKlE7kdJUZcUE

Lmao you called a 15x raise. Raises this large means you should be pure 3b or fold preflop. Heck, even at 5-7x thats the case. If youre ahead of their range, 3bet, otherwise fold. That easy.

Good luck with the vlog.

As for the hand... five ways to the flop in a wildly loose game, I'm not fist pumping to get stacks in with the third nuts, especially when the Kc is on board, and anyone can show up on the turn with KXdd.

Feels like the way to adjust to games like this is to play nitty pre and peddle the nuts post. Can't over-play marginal value or bluff at all against guys who will get involved too wide pre and be too sticky post.

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I agree this game is loose for sure but it’s just an odd 1/3. Min-Max is $100-$1,000 and you will have a few orbits that the avg raise is anywhere from 10-20ish then all of a sudden you can’t see a flop for less than $45. I’ve been on the table when after 10pm you would not see a flop for less than $75 and it’s really just a 1/3 game lol. It’s nuts

You’re right I guess the other play was 3bet and I take it down 100%. Folding pre is always the correct play but I guess if you knew the players it’s like you just woke up to AA with my hand which again should have called for a 3bet instead of a call which only gave the players after me odds to call. After the hand some of the players said what they had and what draw they were on and they had complete garbage so again that’s the only defense I have against my call preflop

Not sure if my meaning was clear, or if I'm just missing yours, but...

If you're in a 1/3 game with a $6 straddle and a $1k cap and guys are opening $20, you're effectively playing 2/5, 150bb deep. If they're opening to $40, you're playing 10/10, 100bb deep. If they're opening $75, you're playing 10/25, 40bb deep.

It's not 1/3 just because two guys push out $4. It's only 1/3 when someone opens to $10-$15 off $500. It's about the open size and the stack size, not the blinds, because we're trying to get what's in the pot, or entire stacks, not just the blinds. No one is opening to $40 trying to win $4. They're hoping to win your $1,000.

I may not have played in Texas, but I've played 1/3 that turned into 1/3/6/12/24 around 2am and $3k deep, and 2/5 that somehow turned into an uncomfortable 2/5/10/20 barely $1500 deep. Those are not the same games, at all.

You shouldn't be flatting a EP raise to $40 from MP with QJs and getting stacks in with the 3rd nuts after seeing a flop five ways.

Its good, but not AA though. Its like an 8th percentile hand. Theres a decent chance its the best hand but its not like its at some monster advantage, maniacs show up with AA at the same rate as we do. Its perfectly fine to 3 bet it, and I probably would because i have no BR concerns, but if you have any sort of bankroll concerns, id probably 3 bet maybe just a little more snug, around 6-7%. 77+ ATs+ AQo+ KQ KJs.

When maniacs start playing wider like this, 3 betting wider than usual is the most EV+ option, but tightening up is an effective strategy to cut down on the inevitable massive variance from a game like this and focus on the larger edges and forfeit the smaller edges for the sake of bankroll concerns.

Ive found 1/3 typical raise size is $15. 2/5 typical raise size is ALSO $15, and 5/T typical raise size is $25.

I wouldnt say its effectively the same in that difference is pretty stark though because we call way more at 5/T and 3 bet way more at 1/3. Which i know you agree with

I see $10-$15 opens at 1/3, and $15-$25 at 2/5, but also oddly smaller or bigger opens at both stakes. Probably see more $20 opens at 2/5 than $15, but none of that is to say I don't agree.

My point to OP was mainly to consider the opens as a truer indicator of the game size, and to do that, I just backed into what the hypothetical blinds would be if the opens were 2.5bb to 4bb, and didn't want to confuse things by referring to a game size that doesn't exist, like a bb of $6.33 or $12.75.

The underlying thread is to consider stack size as a multiple of open size, not a multiple of bb size, and adjust accordingly.

I see how people can get mentally stuck thinking about the game size as being small because the "official" blinds are small. Many players don't know how to adjust to straddles or bigger opens in these "small" games.

When I played 1/3/12/24, $3k deep, the min-max buy in was still $100-$500, so guys were sitting down with $100-$200 and losing it all in the first hand they played, then reloading for another $100-$200. They didn't realize they were only buying in deep enough to play one hand. If they understood that, they'd play their entire range as fold or jam pre. They were over-limping for $24, not realizing the rest of us with deep stacks were limp-rr'ing to $300, because all the opens were coming from the blinds/straddles, and the standard opens were $100+. We didn't see a flop more than once an orbit. That's not a 1/3 game.

When I played 2/5/10/20, $1500 deep, it was still a $200-$1k buy in. Guys were coming to the table to sit down with $500, but stopping and standing there, as they wondered if they were rolled for the game. If they thought longer than 10 seconds, I'd say, "no one here is rolled for this game." Guys were flatting opens in MP or limping from LP just to put in back-3B's/4B's over the aggros on the BTN or in the blinds. $700-$800 stacks were getting it in pre-flop every other hand. That's not a 2/5 game.

If OP is $1k deep in a game where guys are opening to $40 and getting three or more callers, QJs isn't in our calling range pre, unless he's come prepared to buy in multiple times, and is prepared for wild variance.

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Yes, this exactly. 3 betting is EV+, but should fold and wait for a stronger hand unless properly rolled, and i suppose calling might be more EV+ than folding, and is slightly lower variance, but youre better off using your variance allotment to 3 bet with better hands than to call with this.