Game: 1/3
Hand: 44
Hero stack: $225
Position:UTG
Villain is mid 40's, Indian man, has an average conservative look, little to no interaction with anyone. More than capable of running bluffs. (Prior HH)

Action: hero open limps with 44 from UTG in a limp heavy game. Folds to villain in MP who raises to 12($260 behind), BTN calls, folds to hero who calls. 3-way to flop with $35 in pot after rake.

Flop is K42dhs. Checks around.

Turn is Kh. Hero leads for $12 into $35, V flat calls, BTN reluctantly calls. I put V on a high king, particularly AK or KQ. Never putting him on K4, K2, he wasn't super tight but he was more selective of his spots to raise so I excluded that from his range.

River is 3c. Hero leads for $40 into $70, V pauses for about 20 seconds, plays with chips and raises to $81, BTN insta folds.

Hero?

Bet flop bet turn shove River. /thread

Welcome to forum, OP. Very nice post for a first one. Thanks for paying attention to the guidelines.

Is hero's stack the effective here?

I'm not a huge fan of the limp/call pre without more players to make our set-mining more likely to pay off if we hit, esp OOP. I don't mind the open-limp (though some will) in a game that is limpy and often goes mega-multiway, but I fold to the raise with only one other potential caller.

AP, flop is a donk-lead, imo. You're not getting anything without one of the Vs having a K, but if they don't you're prob not getting much anyway. If one does, you want to set up playing for stacks. C/C is likely to shut action down, and C/R is way too strong on a board this dry.

AP to turn, WTF with the tiny bet? No one is calling crap without a K, a PP >5 and <K or a FD, so sizing it small doesn't get many more hands to call, and you're losing a ton of value. Bet twice as much, at least.

AP to river, same deal, though better sizing. We're targeting Ks, and PPs >Ts imo. I go $55.

Now we get a min-raise. What does this for value? A crap ton of Ks, some very unlikely A5s. Of the Ks, which ones are bigger boats? Only K2-K4, which seem really unlikely to have raised pre. We lose only to KK, of which only one combo is available and if he had it he played the hand worse than you for getting value. We obv never want to just call the raise.

Now, do we want to shove, or make a smaller re-raise? Well, his bluff range isn't calling anything, and his value range will have one hell of a time folding. Pot is $221 with your call, and you've only got about $120 left, for just over a PSB. I don't see how any of his range that can call anything folds to the shove, so try to make up the value you lost earlier, imo.

What Garrick said ^

I'm fine with either a c/r attempt or lead otf, when you go for the c/r and don't get you def need to bet the turn yourself.

OTR you can probably just open shove. Kx/22/33/A5 are never folding, you only lose to weird Kx hands that neither V probably ever play.

Yes, the Heros stack of 225 Pre flop is effective here. V had H covered with $260, and the BTN had $500, sorry for leaving btn stack size out. The goal was to check raise the flop, although it didn't work obviously with two checks behind. Then on the turn I love the logic garick mentioned in that the only hands calling are K's, 2 pairs and FD. So I agree that a larger bet to extract more value would've been better. Great point, thank you for that.

Eldiesel what is your logic behind open shoving the river? Or maybe someone can chime in on that

Also, when do I post the results of the hand?

Typically when the debate/discussion has mostly slowed to a halt.

.

Get it in when you have the chance on the river. This is why we play 44, to stack AK.

I would lead the flop for at least half pot. Tons of limp/call range hands call here.... A3/A5/35s/23s/34s/kx/etc.... You are getting tons of value from Villain's range.

As I see it, you checked the flop and bet the turn when the 2nd King hits. So many live players will never bet trip Kings here. If you bet here, I would rarely put you on a Kx holding. Because of this your hand is severely under represented and Villain will be value raising all Kx holdings.

I think that Villain is rarely bluffing here but he is likely valuecutting himself a ton.

If I understand correctly, you are putting villain on raising pf with AK, KQ, maybe KJ, then checking a king-high flop. Is this consistent with his play on previous hands?

I'm fine with preflop. It certainly isn't ideal being OOP and only going 3ways, but I'm guessing it is still profitable.

SPR is 6 on the flop. We could just bet/bet/bet to get in stacks, but on this very dry K high board and against a guy known to run bluffs, I think I'd prefer a check/call and go from there. Too bad it checked around. ETA: This might also depend on our image; the more FOS image we have, the more we should just bet/bet/bet versus the more nitty image we have the more we'll probably be forced to check/call and then probably donk the turn. Note there is no reason to check/raise the flop as that will typically fold out all his bluffs, prevent him from catching a card that he might pay off with, plus stacks are such that we can still get them in by just calling a flop bet.

On the turn we could just check again and hope raiser starts doing his bluffing thing. But I might prefer a massive overbet in order to enable us to play for stacks by the river. I'd probably make it a lol $60 in order to setup a river shove. I don't think I like the small bet unless we're attempting to induce a raise, but honestly it looks like we're trying to keep everyone on the line with a K (whereas a massive overbet looks damn fishy), imo.

I think we made a massive mistake on the river. With this action, it's pretty clear that one of these guys is most likely slowplaying a K, and a K is never folding. Plus we can never fold given these stacks and strength of our hand (if someone lucked into a better hand it's a cooler). So I'd shove; anything less is a pretty massive mistake, imo. As played, trivial shove (even though HH posting bias will probably have us running into quads here, but we can't be results oriented).

GcluelessNLnoobG

The only prior hand history that I clearly recall is the villain ran a bluff on every street with AK with no pair or draw. He seemingly disguises his bluffs and nutted hands with similar small sizing. However villain had just sat down and did not have an idea of Heros image, I get told all the time that I look like a LAG but in actuality I'm a TAG.

The logic was putting him on AK and slow playing it when he has it and taking stabs when he doesn't. That's with limited HH. Checking the flop was in assumption that he CBets there most of the time. When he checked back I assumed he had none of it or was slow playing AK, so my small bet on the turn was to induce a raise or get him to call wider with his pocket pairs.

Okay, the villain ended up having pocket KK.

Thank you to everyone who responded to my first post. My apologies to the late response and reveal of the hand. Any additional information is still appreciated

Yup. PSB/PSB/Shove.

You can't bet so small on the turn. You already gave up one round and betting. You need to maximize getting $$ in the pot by the turn. Shove the turn because he'll call with most Kx.

I don't like check/raising this dry flop. I would rather play bet/bet/bet or check/call flop and then lead turn and river to get stacks in. It sucks that he had quads, but you should always want to get stacks in with this hand on this board with your stack size.