1/3 500$ max game, my normal game.

Hero: Reg at this game, LAG image, winning image, in for 300$ ran it up to 1300 before this hand in about 3 hours, running like god.

V1 MP: unknown 50s male, seems tight, raises small, nitty image. 250$
V2 BB: unknown late 40s male, super loose, calls wide on flops calls almost any PFR. Stack 400$.

V1 opens for 11$ in MP, folds to hero in SB calls with KdJd, V2 calls.

Flop: 9d7d7h

Hero checks, V2 checks, V1 bets 25. Call call.

Turn: Qd

Hero checks, V2 checks, V1 bets 35$, hero raises to 75$. Both just call.

Ranges here for Vs are pocket pairs probably not AA or KK, AQ, straight draws, unlikely smaller flush draws or Axs flush or naked ace FD.

River: 8h

This completes the JT straight and bricks the naked Ad flush. I bet for value here. 70$. V2 raises for 100$ more and V1 moves all in for less.

Hero??

Firstly, calling a nitty/tight relatively short-stacked player's open OOP with KJs is questionable to say the least.

Flop is OK, can't raise here, and our draw is probably live against V1, and V2 can very often be folding here behind us, as well as calling with worse draws or medium/low pairs.

We should be leading turn because calling stations and nitty/tight players aren't going to bet for us when we check to them unless they themselves have a flush+, but are very likely to call us with TP+, and even draws. I wouldn't be surprised for V2 to call a turn lead with T8ss.

As played, river is very close. If V1 is very tight/nitty, he's only betting turn with a flush+, and the only nut-flush combo he can have is ATdd, and we're not even sure he raises pre with that. Honestly, I think V1 has 77/99/QQ here most of the time, and as such I'm folding.

If V1 had folded I'm snapping off V2 though because this sort of player can easily be over-playing a lower flush or even a straight here.

I probably just call here and expect to be good a pretty decent amount of the time. Plus I can't pass up on calling $100 to win an $800 pot ($700 before the call). I've seen too many weird things at LLSNL to let this one go.

100% agree with call to win 800 even if I think v1 boated.

I'm ok with preflop call with your hand also.

I think opponent may have QQ since he only bet $35 on turn. Can't see him on ATd if he's a nit

We are never good here. Fold.

Bet/fold the turn. Dont ck/raise.

If no one raises you ott bet/fold the river for value.

Im sorry, what?..

No way can river be a fold here given the price. The 8 otr complete as many straights as boats. Boats may have 3! the turn. We are beat here sometimes, but not often enough to fold.

Agree with betting the turn but river can never be a bet fold. If we bet 70 into 110 ott and get 2 calls, pot otr would be 320 with 290 effective behind. Im open shoving since V2 is stationy.

V1 has AA here a lot. V2 likely has 7x/straights/boats and sounds like a station. As played i call the river and feel really good about it.

Anyone want to give me a reasonable range for V1 (tight, maybe even nitty) when he bet/calls a check/raise on a paired flushed out board ott?

How about when he cold calls a bet and raise on the river?

Then do you want to tell me why we should call?

He starts the hand with less than 100bb. Ive seen nitty old men stack off with overpairs on worse boards than this. AA/KK are very much in his range, AQ as well. Im way more worried about V2 than i am V1 here given that his small river raise looks nutted, but 8:1 im still not folding.

Edit: oh yeah, forgot: fold pre. Facing a nitty ep raise this hand is basically a suited connector being played for 2pair+ value. These are a no-no oop for me.

I fold preflop. We have a nice multiway hand, but we ain't going to go multiway. We're most likely going to end up HU, OOP, without initiative, with a dominated hand. The only thing that is okish about a call is that the price is decent, but that ain't enough for me.

I'd also just check/call the flop. Yeah, we have overs and a flush draw. But this guy bet big after raising preflop, so he's most likely got an overpair. We don't know how many of our overs are good. With the board being paired we've lost some of our flush outs. And he'll most likely call the check/raise, and with these stacks behind we'll be left hanging OOP if we whiff on the turn.

I would just donk the turn. An overpair will often check this scary turn back against two opponents but they'll typically call a bet. I also want to set things up where I can play for stacks on the river. I'd bet 3/4 PSB of $75. If he has QQ, we're going broke. I have no idea why we went for the check/raise, are we trying to fold our opponents (especially V2 who *might* be able to get away from a small flush at this point)?

On the river, stacks are $289 and $139 with the pot being $330. I think we're committed against both stacks, imo. So I would shove, although I'm not exactly loving this spot.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Don't raise a paired board on the turn with a flush, especially OOP. Going to be hard to get a river bet called by worse and when they both call turn you're probably drawing dead most of the time. When V2 cold calls your raise he should have the nut flush, a boat, or unlikely Ad7x. I would have lead the flop initially, and would have donked turn and folded to a raise. In my experience when a third V that isn't the PFR cold calls a c/r with the PFR behind they always have a boat on a paired completed flush board. You're probably dead here and I would have checked and given up on river to any sizable bet.

My favorite thing to say in an ugly spot like this.

"They can't BOTH be bull-****ting..."

...as my cards hit the muck.

They BOTH had boats. V1 shows up with QQ and V2 shows up with 88.

Gross all around.

Still had a good session. Live and learn. Thanks for the great analysis, as always.

V1 type villains are NEVER ever raising that board w/o a f/h. At the very least (although less likely, maybe sometimes a nut flush) this is an easy fold.

also fold pre in a heart beat against a tight villain heads up OOP with one more to act

and fwiw lead out the turn, if your gona c/r dont min c/r, your turning your hand face up. If they didn't have a f/h they would be out and you would lose value