Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? 1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair?

03-05-2012 , 07:28 PM
1/3 blinds, 9-handed

BB: $77
MP (Hero): ~$275
CO: ~$180

Hero opens to $12 with TT, CO and BB call.

Flop ($32): 7 6 3
Hero bets $20, all call.

Turn ($92): 2
Checks to Hero.

BB has about 1/2 pot left. Not worried about him, and if he had a big hand, he probably would have CRAI OTF.

CO is LAP. Probably early 30's, wearing sunglasses. Takes a lot of time with each decision and puts in chips very slowly and neatly stacked.

Options are to b/c, b/f, c/c or c/f.

I'm going to remove b/c. I don't feel good playing for stacks if I bet and get raised.

Therefore, if we:

1. b/f, how much do we bet?
2. c/c, up to how much do we call and what's the plan OTR?
3. c/f, why?
4. If you like b/c, why?
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 07:39 PM
Can we make this player dependent? Because if you are betting I don't see how you fold to an all in from the short stack.

All you are worried about is the loose passive guy. Against him, bet/fold seems like an ok line (but I'd like to know a little more about your read). If he's really passive, he's not raising you very often without a good hand. 98, AK, 87, etc are calling hands to him. Even 88 is probably a calling hand to him.

I think bet/fold is the line vs. Loose Passive and bet/call vs. short stack. Heck, you should be betting enough to commit the short stack anyway (since betting 1/2 pot commits him).

I think we're betting 60 here.

Check is a poor play here on the turn I think. We are ahead of a ton of their ranges. Make a value bet.

Also, it would help a little to know your image.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 07:48 PM
You can't bet/fold. If we put 55+ out there, then we have to be committed with an overpair especially when it wasn't 3bet pre flop. I would bet/call 60 because we should charge the draws here and we're value betting against 88, 99, and big 7s.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 07:53 PM
Is the villain in the cutoff, as described, ever going to bluff with a draw? This V calls with 98. He calls with 87. He's raising with a better hand the vast majority of the time.

This board only has one draw - the straight. If we get raised, V is repping 2 pair like 76 or a set. Is he really raising A7?

Doing some odds, say we bet 60 into the 90 and he shoves his remaining 150 (90 on top). We're left calling 90 into 300. I think I can find a fold at 3 to 1 odds against villains who don't bluff.

Against TAGs and LAGs it's a call all day. Against this V? Not sure I see what he bluffs with.

I think you are getting raised like 10% of the time here, and it's the 10% of the time you are behind.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 08:58 PM
Raise more pre, make it $15-$20

As played, flop.is fine though i'd have bet 25. Turn, bet pot and yes I'd call a shove. Reason is that since you raised pre lots of players at this level will put you on AK. So for under 60bb I have zero problems playing for stacks here.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 09:20 PM
havent dont one of these in a while and my range for villain may be a little off. the only questions we need answered from OP are what hands will he shove with to a bet ott? because he is LAP it kinda narrows his range IMO. but then again, ive seen LAP players get fed up and just say ok i has tp lets get it in. so let me know if the range is accurate for him shoving.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,552 games 0.000 secs 510,400 games/sec

Board: 2s 3c 6d 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.621% 57.76% 00.86% 1474 22.00 { TcTs }
Hand 1: 41.379% 40.52% 00.86% 1034 22.00 { JJ-66, 33, A7s, K7s, 97s, 87s, 75s+, 54s, A7o }


---

2,420 games 0.000 secs 484,000 games/sec

Board: 2s 3c 6d 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.479% 56.57% 00.91% 1369 22.00 { TcTs }
Hand 1: 42.521% 41.61% 00.91% 1007 22.00 { JJ-66, 33, A7s, K7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 54s, A7o }

if we bet 60 and he shoves we get 3.41:1 which is 22.68% equity so looks like were good to go here.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 09:31 PM
Bet whatever the short stack has left and fold if the other guy raises.
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote
03-05-2012 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenji08
havent dont one of these in a while and my range for villain may be a little off. the only questions we need answered from OP are what hands will he shove with to a bet ott? because he is LAP it kinda narrows his range IMO. but then again, ive seen LAP players get fed up and just say ok i has tp lets get it in. so let me know if the range is accurate for him shoving.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,552 games 0.000 secs 510,400 games/sec

Board: 2s 3c 6d 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.621% 57.76% 00.86% 1474 22.00 { TcTs }
Hand 1: 41.379% 40.52% 00.86% 1034 22.00 { JJ-66, 33, A7s, K7s, 97s, 87s, 75s+, 54s, A7o }


---

2,420 games 0.000 secs 484,000 games/sec

Board: 2s 3c 6d 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.479% 56.57% 00.91% 1369 22.00 { TcTs }
Hand 1: 42.521% 41.61% 00.91% 1007 22.00 { JJ-66, 33, A7s, K7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 54s, A7o }

if we bet 60 and he shoves we get 3.41:1 which is 22.68% equity so looks like were good to go here.
I think that shove range is too wide for a LAP. In fact, I think that shove range would be accurate only for a LAG. It would be pretty bold to shove K7s over someone who raised pre and barreled twice.

To be honest, I don't even think the LAP would shove JJ. I think he'd be content to call again and evaluate river. So if he shoved, I could fold pretty confidently....and that's why I wouldn't want to play for stacks against him for 60 BBs in this spot.

And since the consensus seems to be b/f, I think bet sizing is important. Most said to bet $60, but I think that's too large a bet if we intend to b/f.

I think half pot is better. It's cheaper while also enough to charge any draws, lets worse hands call and is also the same amount I'd make if I had a monster.

So let's say I bet $45 and both call. We don't care about the short stacker who's AI. The pot is $227 and villain has $103 left.

What's the plan OTR?

There are very few safe cards for us. An Ace is scary, as is a 7 to 4. A Ten might not be good. So that pretty much leaves 2, 3, J, Q, K as "neutral" cards.

Do we shove river on a "brick" like a King, or do we check/eval?

Are we pot-stuck here, or can we still get away if we check and villain shoves (keep in mind that I think it's highly unlikely he would shove in that spot with hands like A7, 88 or 99....or even JJ).

And if we're pot-stuck, is it because we bet the turn?

Sorry for the long post. I just think it's interesting because it highlights how tricky it is to play TT even with an overpair on what looks to be a safe-ish board. It seems to be a real fine balance between getting value and pot-controlling...
1/3 - Best play OTT with overpair? Quote

      
m