1/3 Home Game that plays pretty big
Hero ($2000) I usually deal this game but tonight I hired a dealer and decided to play. My image is probably a little on the loose aggressive side, although I am probably more on the TAG side. I have extensive history with the whole game from both dealing and playing in it. Everyone in the game has seen me get caught bluffing in huge pots and knows I am capable of spazzing a bit.

Villain 1 (About $600): Tight Passive type fish. Will limp call with a lot of medium strength pairs 66-JJ, maybe even QQ. Flats a lot with his big premiums. Rarely ever 3bets. Kind of has monsters under the bed syndrome; it's really easy to barrel him off a large portion of his value range with 2 and 3 barrels. Rarely bluffs.

Villain 2 ($500): extremely loose, calls big opens with any two suited regardless of position. Has a propensity to overbet his draws and oftentimes air when checked to. Extremely sticky postflop as well. It's possible to get 3 streets of value from him with a mediocre top pair. Doesn't fold draws, or anything, very often at all but plays his draws pretty aggressively most times.

Villain 2 Button Straddles for $5 (Button straddle in this game is 5 as opposed to 6 to keep the game more dealer friendly)
Villain 1 Completes from the SB
folds to hero in MP who makes it $25 with AA and both of them call.

Flop ($80) 783
Villain 1 Checks, Hero Checks, Villain 2 Checks
My standard is to cbet here probably 90% of the time. I know the majority of you will say flop is a bet. I checked in this instance primarily because of the fact that the player behind me bets a ton when checked to. I wasn't really comfortable getting the stacks in against Villain 1 since he doesn't generally stack off with one pair hands and didn't want to have to b/f here.

Turn ($80) 5
Villain 1 Leads for $75
Hero Raises to $225
Villain 2 folds
Villain 1 gets really mad and starts making a speech. He explicitly says "**** do you have a set? I can beat an overpair but not a set." he rambles a little more and calls.

River ($530) 3
Villain instantly jams for $320
Hero?

After the speech I had him pretty exclusively on 78 but when he just bombs the river after insinuating that he had me ranged on an overpair I'm kind of thrown for a loop here. He plays often and does think about how board texture changes. He would generally be cognizant of how overpairs now beat 78 so I don't know why he would bomb it in. The timing was pretty instant though so maybe it was premeditated. Thoughts?

Villain calls big opens with any two and he is on the button. Why did you only make it 20 more?

Raise to 35- 40 pre and barrel, given your image. The repeat 3 is then perfect for you.

With the speach and the shove, I think you are beat by either a FH or straight.

Fold

I'm not looking to get into a 2 page discussion about preflop. There are solid players in the game and I keep my opening sizes consistent. I make it 4x+1bb for every limper. I do not modify my opening size based on hand strength.

No, but you should based on player tendancies so there lies a leak. If you wish to seek advice from others, then allow the whole hand in its entirely to be scrutinised. By making such small raise with a player who calls with any two and the otger who is a tight passive fish is leaving money on the table.

We aren't going to see eye to eye on this one which is why I didn't particularly want to get into it. In a standard casino 2/5 game balance might not be important but there are a few genuinely solid players behind me and I would rather not play an exploitable style.

So, with good player behind you decided to play a small pot. Thats fine, so why such a large turn raise.

Ok, so clearly you have a very dialled GTO style there is no need for any futher discussion and I will not comment further.

No I wasn't trying to be condescending I just don't think it's worth it to discuss preflop because that's really standard as far as I am concerned. I think all postflop streets are up for debate way more than pre. I'm not even sure if I should have been raising the turn. Figured I can get value from 99-JJ part of his range and maybe some draws if he gets sticky. Honestly I don't hate flatting the turn either and letting him barrel if he whiffs. We'll let this play out once everyone wakes up and see what people think. Sorry if I came off as a little abrasive.

All good.

I'm having a bit of a hard time reconciling the above thought and this action....

In any case, the answer is right in front of you.

His MUBS ain't getting him here, we did not 2 and 3 barrel him, and he can no longer be bluffed. We have at best a bluff catcher.

Whatever percent of the time "rarely bluffs" means to you (2%, 5%, I'm guessing it's less than 10%), that's the percent of the time you win this pot.

Unless he's metagaming you, the speech or act where you talk about weakness followed by a shove is almost always the nuts or a monster. He doesn't have 2 pair. It's a fh or straight like always.

I bet flop for like 40 here. This doesn't look like a flop that's good for a PFR, so I expect some calls. I'd be wary of c-betting this flop with air for the same reason.

As played, just flat turn. Reraising turns our hand into a bluff. Fold River based on you r reads. All you are beating is 87.

Also, on preflop I agree bet more. How often are pots straddled in your game? I play a home game w straddles once or twice an orbit so think I can get away with playing more exploitatively in these spots since I tighten up a bit too.

You have two players in the hand with wide preflop ranges and 120bb effective, just go bet/bet/shove on this runout. Fold ott if raised. I mean this is basic poker no? I don't get why you're not comfortable getting the money in vs villain 1, but if you really think he's not calling 99-QQ, 89,86,A8 otr then just check behind.

IMO this a really standard spot vs described villains. No need to overthink it. It sucks if they have a set, but you'll be taking them to valuetown so often that it doesn't really matter if you valuetown yourself once in a while.

As played, i'm not raising the turn potbet, however i would raise a $40 bet (since that's often the weaker part of their range pair +sd). Def fold river as played, tight passive, that's okay.

Snap call river

Has V ever hollywooded like that before? If he really did that with the set, and then boated up on the river, ship him the pot as well as an Oscar.

Do u think theres any way he shows up w 4-6 or 5-9? Based on the description while he is mubsy, you did not say anything implying that he would call the pre-flop raise with trash.

Call. Think he has 7-8 in his range, as well as pps above 88.

Fine pre. Yes, you should have bet the flop. V2 sounds sticky and you said he'll call three streets with draws and weak hands. Get the ball rolling. Against V1, find out how much he likes his hand by cbetting.

The turn raise doesn't make sense. A tight-passive 'never bluffs' player just fired a PSB into two players OOP. Your flop analysis says V1 doesn't stack off with top pair hands and doesn't bluff. Why raise him then? He clearly has a strong hand. I'd call mostly for pot control.

Based on V1s speech, your AA is absolutely beat on the turn. I'd be shocked if V1 has anything worse than two pair. Typically when villains get specific about holdings, they're telling the truth. I wouldn't feel this way against a tricky LAG or villain you've seen use table talk to disguise hands. Based on your description of V1, there's no way it's an act.

The 3 on the river puts you ahead of 87, but that's about it. He probably accurately put you on an overpair after he called your turn raise. Tight-passive, mubsy players wouldn't insta-shove with 87 based on his read. You've already labeled him as a player who never bluffs. I think V1 has a boat/quads, probably 55/33. I don't like putting players on such a narrow range, but those are the only hands that make sense.

If you really think villain would insta-shove with 87, tight-passive player would only call a preflop raise OOP with 87s. That's 2 combos of 87s, 3 combos of 55, and 1 combo of 33. I would include 1-3 combos of 77 as well. I don't think the 2.5-to-1 calling odds are good enough. The odds are marginally good enough if you don't include 77.

Pretty sure I agree with this. I raised the turn to get value out of other overpairs in his range but I acted too quickly. Pretty much as soon as I raised I realized flatting the turn bet was better. In general, he tells the truth and I think this would be too specific of a lie for him to run. He said that he cannot beat a seat in his speech though so if we believe that he's telling the 100% truth, how does that impact the river decision?

In a home game with a similar player pool week in and week out that plays bigger n deeper then a lot of 2/5 games with solid players it is important to open consistently

We narrow his range to exactly 87/33/55/77. He said he can't beat a set. That doesn't mean he only has two pair, he could have a set worse than top set. He could put you on 88 because you raised pre and, in his mind, might have checked the flop with top set. He probably thinks you wouldn't have raised so much pre with 33, 55, or even 77.

His river shove should eliminate 87. Mubsy players would probably roll their eyes and check the river in defeat after the 3 gives overpairs a better two pair. When tight players call a turn raise then shove the river, they have a monster. Don't feed the nits.

Fair enough. In the moment, in game, the way his speech was said, and just gut feel, I am able to discount all sets from his range. I just know he does not have any set at this point. Discounting all sets, I decided the river is a call. He has 53 for a boat. Oh well.

Guy pretty much tells you the 3 helped him, he either had a two pair with the 3 or a set.

Shockingly loose call preflop in the SB for a 'tight' player. Reclassify villain as someone who makes weak calls OOP from the blinds. He's not tight preflop.

Preflop
I agree that it's good to have a standard opening raise size when playing with people you play with regularly.

One thing to keep in mind is that it's likely that not everyone in your home game straddles regularly on the button.

What this means is that when the button has been straddled, the person straddling will be part of a distinct subset of the player pool. As such, you should optimize your sizing against this subset, not against the theoretical possibility of all players straddling.

Put another way, let's say there are 10 regulars in your game, and only 3 of them straddle the button.

Your raise sizing in these situations should derive from what would be maximally exploitative against these 3 players. If they are loose/bad, then it is likely that you will want to raise bigger.

All of that is to say that I agree that you should have a standard opening size in this situation, but it is possible that the opening size you have selected is not the most optimal one. You'll have to think through how often each player straddles, then construct a bet sizing strategy that best exploits this population (keep in mind that you can construct your range individually against each player since this information would not be apparent).

Flop
On the flop, you should be aware of how many streets of value you would want to get against each player, and then adjust your play based upon that.

Given your read against the tight/passive player, it should be clear that you want to get 2 streets of betting in vs. him. Given his fear of monsters under the bed, it's unlikely that you will get 3 streets of value. With this in mind, you have to decide which streets you'd like to bet.

Vs. the loose/bad player, it should also be clear that you want to get 3 streets of value and/or get it all in. As such, you have to figure out the way that will get him to put the most money in the pot.

So, in this scenario, we have to rectify this difference in wanting to get 2 streets of value vs. one player and 3 vs. another.

Given your read that the loose/bad player bets a lot with draws/air, I think you do best by giving him a chance to bluff. I would also assume that he bets with his top pair type hands when checked to, so you don't miss out against that part of his range.

In the event that the flop checks through, you still have the opportunity to get 2 streets of value against the tight/passive player. In addition, if the loose/bad player checked, then it's unlikely that he had a hand you would have gotten 3 streets of value with anyway.

So, the conclusion is that I like the flop check against these two exact players. If you tweak their tendencies ever so slightly, ie making the tight player less reticent to put money in the pot, or the loose player less apt to bluff, then it becomes a bet.

Turn
Turn is a very clear call. There's no reason to raise at all. By raising you blow out a lot of the hands you beat, while putting in more money in the pot vs. the hands that you don't.

You want to call the turn so you keep the range of hands you can get value against widest.

The general play should be to call turn/call river. Or if he checks the river, bet for value.

River
River's a fold. He's never value jamming anything worse than what you have so keep that in mind. I would exclude 87 from his range. Players like this are just gonna check the river after calling the turn.

So the question becomes can he be doing this with air? Before answering that, you have to ask, what air can he actually have? His possible air range is capped as follows:

T9s x 4
A few busted combo flush draws: J9s, JTs, K6s, etc. That's probably it. You have the Ah, so there's really not a whole lot of these.

Value Range would be
77: 3 combos
88: 3 combos
55: 3 combos
33: 1 combos

So, it's 10 max value combos vs. 7 max value combos.

You can then further subdivide his range by assigning probabilities that he would get to the river with each hand. For example, maybe you want to discount 88 50% because of his turn speech. In that case, he could only 1.5 combos of it.

This is where you have to figure out player tendencies, etc. and just apply it to their possible ranges.

I would be very doubtful that a player you described would all of sudden ship it on the river with a busted flush draw when it's very possible that you could have an overpair/boat. As such, I think we're beat here a lot and I fold.

Quad 3s?

Grunch.

So strong-hand language is inconclusive but weak-hand language is very often a strong hand. Him telling you he cannot beat a set, for tons of players at least, eliminates bluffs from his range -- even more so with another whole street and 500 behind. I don't think it's a bluff. I think it's a boat or quads a lot.

"Tight Passive" player gives a speech and then jams his stack in on the river? Pretty easy fold with one pair.