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1/3: AA, drawy board 1/3: AA, drawy board

03-16-2015 , 10:42 PM
Effective stacks, ~$300

V1 raises to $8 pre in LP, V2 calls OTB, Hero raises to $30 with AA in SB, BB calls, V1 calls, V2 calls

Flop (~$120): K 8 7
Hero bets $75, BB calls, V1 folds, V2 calls

Turn (~$345): 8
Hero bets $210, both fold

A discussion starts afterwards where BB says he folded AK because "what else can he have there besides AA because KK would not bet so much OTT and this guy wouldn't 3bet 77/88 pre"... The guy is a 2/5 regular and views Hero as tight/winning so his reasoning is spot-on.

BTN showed K6 when he folded

Thoughts?
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-16-2015 , 11:08 PM
Very surprised button didn't jam top pair, FD on the flop. Pot got big, he's getting very close to the right price. Another player said he folded AK?

Table change. These guys are reading hands and making tight folds.
Find some fish!!

This seems well played. You're OOP and board has multiple draws. I don't think getting fancy and slow playing is the move.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-16-2015 , 11:18 PM
If players correctly think you can't put in this kind of action without a nutted hand, the problem is that you can't put in this kind of action without a nutted hand, not that you did put in this kind of action with a nutted hand. Ya know?
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-16-2015 , 11:39 PM
The post hand conversations are always great for gaining an edge in your play. From their comments, they clearly view you as a TAG. Now it's time to capitalize on that image vs. these players.

For example against the AK player you can now float a flop cbet and take down pots on the turn with a raise. It will look like you flopped a set vs. this player.
He "knows" you've got a real hand. Time to bluff. If you get caught, it's okay, you'll now get paid off when you have a much stronger range.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-16-2015 , 11:53 PM
Personally I agree with the above about bluffing with a verified TAG image.

However I think the games are way easier when people can't fold tptk or pair flush draw combos when the board pairs. So I would table change and find an easier table
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-16-2015 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkTastic
The post hand conversations are always great for gaining an edge in your play. From their comments, they clearly view you as a TAG. Now it's time to capitalize on that image vs. these players.

For example against the AK player you can now float a flop cbet and take down pots on the turn with a raise. It will look like you flopped a set vs. this player.
He "knows" you've got a real hand. Time to bluff. If you get caught, it's okay, you'll now get paid off when you have a much stronger range.
This.

If guy did have AK then yes that's a strong fold, but it's exploitable. And if you need to make a tough laydown, just keep it to yourself and move on to the next hand. Withholding that information > "impressing" the table with your sick skills.

I seriously doubt BB had AK though. Why is he calling a 3bet just to let his hand go when he flops TPTK? You could just as easily have QQ here and shut down after the flop. I think he was just looking for some confirmation on his read. Also surprised button didn't get crazy on the flop when he basically flops gin for K6ss.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold
Thoughts?
BTN should've folded that garbage to a raise. ( K, 6 ) is the kind of hand I want to raise for the steal equity, not call raises, and certainly not a big 3-bet from an early position. That's terrabad. OK, he called, flopped 2nd NFD, backdoor straight draw, backdoor straight-flush draw, and TP. He should've raised that flop. He's a weenie.

Hero played it just right, and BB should know better than to run his yap like that. So they view Hero as tight? Good! They just handed Hero a whole bunch of fold equity he can cash in later when BB enters a pot.

"Table change. These guys are reading hands and making tight folds.
Find some fish!!"

He just did. It takes a fish to announce how he's gonna play future hands. He has another who calls big 3-bets with garbage hands. K6-suited ain't much of a hand regardless of how pretty it looks. In situations like this where I have to release something good, I do so quickly and silently, and I never show. I never explain why I did what I did. If they want a line on my play, let them work for it. Let them speculate about what I had when I gave up.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchstreetfish
Very surprised button didn't jam top pair, FD on the flop. Pot got big, he's getting very close to the right price. Another player said he folded AK?

Table change. These guys are reading hands and making tight folds.
Find some fish!!
Ppl that flat squeezes with K6s and don't semibluff when they flop the world ARE fish

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1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkTastic
The post hand conversations are always great for gaining an edge in your play. From their comments, they clearly view you as a TAG. Now it's time to capitalize on that image vs. these players.

For example against the AK player you can now float a flop cbet and take down pots on the turn with a raise. It will look like you flopped a set vs. this player.
He "knows" you've got a real hand. Time to bluff. If you get caught, it's okay, you'll now get paid off when you have a much stronger range.
Yeah, play them accordingly and exploit them, just don't overdo it. If u get caught on bluffs a couple of times u will have to adjust again. Pretty much cat and mouse game

Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchstreetfish
Very surprised button didn't jam top pair, FD on the flop.
Why would he? His justification was "Hero has been playing tight all night". He "knows" I have AA/KK/AK when I cbet flop into 3 others. Might as well see a cheaper turn and decide what to do.

On a side note, are we calling a flop jam from him? That'd be sick.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
If players correctly think you can't put in this kind of action without a nutted hand, the problem is that you can't put in this kind of action without a nutted hand, not that you did put in this kind of action with a nutted hand. Ya know?
It's 1/3, people are just playing their own cards.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 07:07 AM
Oh. Well carry on then, the hand is standard. For some reason I thought you were under the impression this guy folded AK cause he put you on AA. I guess that's not the case.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold
Why would he? His justification was "Hero has been playing tight all night". He "knows" I have AA/KK/AK when I cbet flop into 3 others. Might as well see a cheaper turn and decide what to do.

On a side note, are we calling a flop jam from him? That'd be sick.
A lot of players would definitely shove top pair, flush draw combos here, esp on the button after you led out and got called. Justification is that he either has the best hand with top pair or he's live with the flush draw and he has FE.
If he jams, are we calling? Good question. Depends on your read of him. But on the flop, with his hand, I like jamming more than flat calling, esp with two cards to come.
If you don't hold the A spades, and if the other guy does have AK, top pair and a flush draw has a ton of equity in this spot and with the dead money, and should probably jam.
HU, his hand might be a small fave against you on the flop (51%). Three way, looks like he has about 40% equity depending on where the A spade is, which is still enough to gii.
If I had had his hand, and had put in 10% of my stack preflop and got this flop on the button, I would have gone all in. OP said starting stacks were 100bb effective, def jamming his hand on the flop.

My earlier comment, re: find some fish. Lots of good comments on that which made me think about it. Players who flat twice with suited kings, then incorrectly fold when they flop big THEN show the hand when they fold are fishy as are players who tell you they folded AK. These guys are exploitable. My point was I like players who think less, pay off more but these Vs can be exploited in a different way, which is also fun.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold
Effective stacks, ~$300

V1 raises to $8 pre in LP, V2 calls OTB, Hero raises to $30 with AA in SB, BB calls, V1 calls, V2 calls

Flop (~$120): K 8 7
Hero bets $75, BB calls, V1 folds, V2 calls

Turn (~$345): 8
Hero bets $210, both fold

A discussion starts afterwards where BB says he folded AK because "what else can he have there besides AA because KK would not bet so much OTT and this guy wouldn't 3bet 77/88 pre"... The guy is a 2/5 regular and views Hero as tight/winning so his reasoning is spot-on.

BTN showed K6 when he folded

Thoughts?
GRUNCH

My thoughts are that your opponents are droolers and have no understanding of what they're saying.

Furthermore, If they are folding to you that easily in this spot, then you clearly have a profitable bluff line in the future. In fact, bluffing more in spots similar to this will inevitably get you paid off more frequently when you have big hands
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold
Why would he? His justification was "Hero has been playing tight all night". He "knows" I have AA/KK/AK when I cbet flop into 3 others. Might as well see a cheaper turn and decide what to do.

On a side note, are we calling a flop jam from him? That'd be sick.
Easiest call you'll make all night if he jams on you on flop. Don't be a nit. You become super exploitable if you are making a habit of folding AA on semi wet flops in 3b pots.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowdownValue
Easiest call you'll make all night if he jams on you on flop. Don't be a nit. You become super exploitable if you are making a habit of folding AA on semi wet flops in 3b pots.
This guy didnt bluff top pair and a Fdraw. If he jams a flop in the future it is a pretty trivial fold.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 12:06 PM
I think I would raise more preflop. We're asking the raiser to call $22, and if he calls it's likely the Button does too, which means at least 2 opponents will be getting implied odds of ~14x which ain't horrible (especially since we'll be stacking off 100% of the time postflop). I would probably make it at least $40.

A little unexpected that we went 4ways. Even though we've given 3 opponents okish odds to stack us, the bottom line for me is that we have toppest overpair on a drawy board where no Kx is folding ever in a super small SPR pot. If anyone was super bluffy/aggro, I *might* attempt a check/shove, but otherwise I would just pot the flop on this drawy board and shove the rest in on the turn. I'm never folding.

Gnicehand,imoG
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 12:19 PM
Looks totally fine. By the way, your turn bet is obviously a shove $300 effective.

I wouldn't worry too much about what people are saying. V2 calling on the button the first time around with K6s facing an EP open and then calling again facing your 3-bet seems pretty terrible. Wow. Good to know he has a very wide range - you have to wonder if he'd call flop with Kx no flush draw - he's calling with terrible dominated hands; iso him, value bet him, etc.

BB flatting AK to your 3-bet is probably pretty good. I think he took a good line.

I think you can keep playing in this game. Good to have perfect position on V2. Not great to be on the right of V1, but I think you're overestimating his play, and it's good that he talked - adjust: semi-bluff check/raise him later and hopefully get TPTK- to fold, etc.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote
03-17-2015 , 03:48 PM
I don't think I'd ever table change from a game where people are putting in $30 pre-flop with K6.

fwiw, I (along with many poker players) lie about their holding when the hand is over. If I say anything about my hand, there's a 99.2% chance I'm lying. Maybe the guy had AK, maybe he didn't.

Hand was played fine though.
1/3: AA, drawy board Quote

      
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