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1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. 1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw.

08-04-2023 , 12:36 AM
V1 is a bad rec. $2,200 stack. Only seen him play for an hour or so and he is clearly vpiping too wide. He just nit rolled the flopped nuts with 86o on 97567 to chop vs 86o, himming and hawwing about J8, boats, etc.

V2 is a bad reg. He might be a winning player, it is hard to tell. But he also vpips too wide, mainly in the form of calling, including cold calling 3bets. Capable of bluffing and hero calling. $2.8k stack. Hero covers.

I thought this hand was a good example of how I approach multiway pots.

9 handed 1/3 time rake with button straddle to $15. UTG limps $15. Hero in +1 raises to $75 with KsTs. V1 calls in +2. V2 calls in LJ. HJ , CO and UTG limper all call. Hero says, "Good call everyone. I am sure everyone made very sound calls."

Flop $469 Tc8s4s. UTG checks, hero checks, V1 bets $300. V2 calls, folds around to hero, hero calls.

Turn $1,369 (Tc8s4s)2d hero checks, v1 tank bets $650 $1,175 behind, v2 calls, 1,775 behind. Pot will be $3,319 if I call. Hero?
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 12:55 AM
Jam
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 03:47 AM
Call and fold any non spade, T, or K river. And maybe even fold on K or T depending on action.


I think we are going to be hard pressed to have a lot of fold equity here, which would be the only reason we jam.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlark
UTG limps $15. Hero in +1 raises to $75 with KsTs. V1 calls in +2. V2 calls in LJ. HJ , CO and UTG limper all call. Hero says, "Good call everyone. I am sure everyone made very sound calls."
That's how you talk to your customers? If it's all part of the banter fine but without further context you sound like any one of the more miserable regs that infest my room.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 09:41 AM
I'd rather the kicker was an Ace, but you can probably still call without getting too excited. Worse Jack's can still bet this for equity denial. This can be a call intending mostly to check-fold the river.

Flop would you still call if there were 1-2 players left to act? I suppose once you checked they would have the green light to bet so it probably wouldn't make much difference in this particular spot, but it's not a fistpump call by any means
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 10:16 AM
i want to call but i can see arguments for jamming too. i think we're going to be able to play river nodes well and show up with a strong hand on perceived poor cards for our range when both v's can have a bunch of missed draws
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-04-2023 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxterite
I'd rather the kicker was an Ace, but you can probably still call without getting too excited. Worse Jack's can still bet this for equity denial. This can be a call intending mostly to check-fold the river.

Flop would you still call if there were 1-2 players left to act? I suppose once you checked they would have the green light to bet so it probably wouldn't make much difference in this particular spot, but it's not a fistpump call by any means
Yeah, I can't go anywhere with TPGK and the second nutflush draw. Too middling to check raise especially when this multiway. I don't know that I could go anywhere with KT even without the flush draw, but I would definitely rather have this than an overpair, blocking TT, T8, and with decent equity when I'm behind.

Turn would be really disgusting with an overpair actually.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-05-2023 , 02:07 AM
Spoiler:
Hero calls, river brings out Td to give us trips. Hero checks, v1 tank checks, v2 tank checks.

V1 claims he had an 8, v2 shows he had As6s. Hero scoops a $3,319 pot making 0 bets postflop.

Thought the hand was neat. Kind of showcases a few things. One, fish play garbage hands, but not always super passively. Sometimes they seriously overplay them when checked to for who knows why? I doubt v1 calls if I had made the bets for him. But something told him maybe he has the best hand because I checked, or maybe I will fold a better hand?

Two, in multiway pots you can get screwed by a player who charges you immensely for your draw while way behind himself. This is one of the reasons you want to 3bet to try to take things heads up where possible.

Three, I thought it was interesting that v2 complained after the hand that low suited aces always screw him, and I think it is easy to see why. Your draw usually misses, and it's hard to get paid when you hit. It's hard to flush over flush someone when he blocks your outs. And you're going to also run into kicker problems which will also be expensive for you. Seriously. Do not cold call these hands when they are clearly folds based on you position and the action.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-05-2023 , 04:52 AM
looks like the correct answer was raise turn
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-05-2023 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlark
Yeah, I can't go anywhere with TPGK and the second nutflush draw. Too middling to check raise especially when this multiway. I don't know that I could go anywhere with KT even without the flush draw, but I would definitely rather have this than an overpair, blocking TT, T8, and with decent equity when I'm behind.



Turn would be really disgusting with an overpair actually.
Disagree pretty strongly that flop xr is not a viable line, especially with 2 players putting in money so far.


Pre-flop seems over-agressive, KTs is a good hand but we are setting up for bloated pots with bad position and what do we know about UTG range? If utg limps a strong range this is quite dangerous. Does utg back-raise?

Also KTs is going to fold to most additional raises pre-flop.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-05-2023 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by submersible
looks like the correct answer was raise turn
Yeah, but v2's line was spent of consistent with a set/ T8/ AT, looking to jam river on 2p+ and check back AT unimproved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Disagree pretty strongly that flop xr is not a viable line, especially with 2 players putting in money so far.

Pre-flop seems over-agressive, KTs is a good hand but we are setting up for bloated pots with bad position and what do we know about UTG range? If utg limps a strong range this is quite dangerous. Does utg back-raise?

Also KTs is going to fold to most additional raises pre-flop.
I think flop check raise when I have TPGK and the 2nd nut flush draw is somewhat of an overplay when v1 bets ~ 2/3 pot on a 6 way flop. Knowing v2's exact hand it turns out I could use some protection, but in general I don't need a ton of protection with this hand, and it is far from nutted.

I am probably not going to play a ton of check raises on this flop vs large sizing multiway.

Preflop KTs is strong enough to open UTG, so I am isoing this hand 100% vs one limper. Probably folding to 3bet unless it is vs an aggressive reg with a wide 3bet range. UTG was pretty unknown so I don't know if he LRRs, but easy fold there.

KI was hoping to thin the field with my iso raise which happens a ton, especially when the straddle is the max straddle and people tend not to be as comfortable putting in $75 pre. But the table was pretty fish heavy and bad reg heavy, and it turned out a lot of the fish didn't mind paying $75 in a SRP to see a flop.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote
08-07-2023 , 03:08 AM
Why not crai on flop? Folds out some hands that beat us and sometimes gets called by combo draws that are in terrible shape.
1/3/15 super multiway, TPGK, second nut flush draw. Quote

      
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