I don't like it. Backraising folds out all the hands we crush pre and keeps in hands which are at least a coinflip vs. us or are crushing us all the way, while massively bloating the pot.

Unless of course you somehow have a balanced UTG backraising range. And if you do, that's certainly levels beyond anyone I've seen play.

Actually, no. If I backraise and original raiser calls, we go to a K high dry board and he calls a hefty flop bet, I'd be getting real worried. At this point by backraising we've eliminated the a huge number of dominated one-pair Kings from his range.

So the 1/3 times you flop TPTK when you raised preflop, any decent sized bet you make gives them odds to have called preflop with any two cards.

I dont understand your statement but Im talking about if you went for a limp reraise and nobody raised then 2/3 times you miss anyway and dont lose anything but 1bb.

Recognizing how to get value from (one pair) hands is probably the single key to tactic in beating low stakes live games.

First, let us assume we do limp / reraise with AA, KK. Otherwise, all our early position raises could get raised. Then, you need to give your limp, re-raise some value (you want people to call your limp reraise some of the time). AKo AKs, are perfect to balance your range.

"The good news is" sounded sarcastic.

Ah yes, the balanced range of AKs, AKo, KK and AA. If those are the hands you're backraising (and by default, I think most players assume that a UTG backraise is ridiculously strong), the only hands which will continue to your preflop action will have very good equity against you.

I'd be more worried making a hefty bet into a field of opponents.

??? If my range is only AA / KK, no one would play back at me.

At the most basic level, having just 4 hands in this range is good enough to start with.

Yes, I've gotten that.

Fine, fine, we agree to disagree then. I don't know what the obsession with thinning the field is, AKo plays perfectly well in a 3 or even 4 way pot, tho less so OOP. Perhaps it's got to do with how we assume our villains play. If you live in a world where literally every single player calls every single preflop raise then fine, don't play anything OOP. If you live in a world where you can never tell when someone else flops a set or two pair, then fine, don't ever play a one pair hand as anything but a bluffcatcher.

But if you live in a world where most live players give you tons of value with dominated one pair hands (and I know I certainly live in that world), go ahead and bet/fold your one pair hands on all 3 streets.

I did not claim AKo is an automatic limp/reraise, I only disagreed with your assertion that backraising with AKo is bad.

I am not too sure about your other point. If we are living in a world where raising in EP does nothing but build a pot, do you play TPTK the same way in LP and EP?

Hands with two big unsuited cards lose value rapidly as the field grows. AK is probably good enough that it still has value unless we overplay it OOP, but failing to thin the field has turned a premium hand into a marginal hand.

Bloating the pot is just fine when we're playing a premium "top-pair hand" OOP. The lower the SPR, the better.

That would be a great analysis of the need to balance ranges against good opponents -- if we were playing against good opponents.

The other day I limped AA on the button over one or two other limpers versus a semi-maniacal guy in the UTG straddle who was raising a lot. He dutifully raised, I made like a 3x reraise*, he called for half the effective stack, and he check/folded to a cbet.

Why on earth would I want to balance ranges in a game like that?

===
*Actually I like flatting here too, I think, since the field was only 3 or 4 and SPR is low.

Played the standard $100max 1/2nl Florida game at Hard rock tonight. Got AKo in early or utg spot 3 times and tried limping all 3 times. It was a table of half drunk/****** and half ******.
I had the main drunk tard 2 to my left. 1st time I limp 5 others limp and I totally miss the flop and check fold.
2nd time I limp and drunk tard makes it $12 all fold to me, I know raising to $30 or $40 gets called 100% then I would have to shove the flop anyway with $100 starting stack. And if I shove he probly calls and Im probably slightly ahead or flipping. I just called and another called. Missed flop and check folded.
3rd time limp drunk tard limps and so do 4 others and other tard makes it $5 straight from the bb, I make it $30 and drunk tard quickly calls and so does other tard.
flop 833 with 2 hearts. I bet $45. DT folds and other tard calls leaving himself $11. Bland on turn and he goes AI for $11, with almost $200 in pot I call and he has A5 of hearts(flush draw and no pair) 8 on river and we chop it.
The last hand just goes to show why I hate AK in EP against these types of players. I mean I built up a $200 pot with no pair and was ahead but just not the best situation.

It might just be me, but I hate myself a lot more when I get my money in really bad, drawing dead or thin, compared to when I get my money in good and get beat...

As has been said many times before but seemingly not here, poker isnt about winning pots, its about making the right decisions. The right decision, if our opponents are likely to call with dominated hands, is to raise and get money into the pot as a favourite. Its not as if we are OOP to durrr or anything, where being OOP is such a point we need a massive equity to make up for how often we are pwnt postflop. We are against predictable fish who play passively and will let us know if we have been severely outflopped even if the flop comes ace high...

The main key isnt to think that TPTK is good when they c/r the paired board or lead when the drops on the turn...

That's entirely the wrong way to think about AK preflop! I've bolded your most egregious error in logic.

If "raising to $30 or $40 gets called 100%", then why on earth wouldn't you want to raise for value all day? I can understand being worried about 3-betting AK for value against a player who's only calling with QQ+ and AK, but against this guy you're getting a ton of value every time he calls with a dominated ace or king or some random hand like JT or Q4s or whatever.

Generally the hand goes down in one of three ways:

• He doesn't pair: You take down a nice-sized pot with a cbet shove*. Or maybe he calls with six outs twice (if he's lucky) That's not "slightly ahead." If you're not happy getting money in as something like a 70-30 favorite, you need to find a new pastime.
• He pairs (including starting with a pocket pair), you don't: He calls, you get stacked for $60 more in an $80 pot -- unless you draw out.
• You both pair: You double up.

Very rarely one of you makes a monster, but that's not significant with so much of the money in preflop.

If you're thinking correctly about the probabilities of each of these happening, you should understand why failing to 3-bet AK against a player who'll call 100% is just lighting money on fire.

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*You might also come up with a more profitable way to play AK on the flop -- say checking back the flop and picking off desperation bluff shoves when he wouldn't call

I backraise s---loads more than this in a live game. But it is 100% villain dependent. I have no qualms getting 300+ dollars in there in a 1/3 game w/ 99 if i'm pretty sure I'm beating my opponents range (and I love coinflips when there is dead money... tails i lose, heads I win 125%... that bet is for me). On the other hand, against some players making strange bets, I can quickly revise my UTG QQ or JJ limp-reraise plan into a call the raise then c/f without a set postflop--when you know you're beat, you know you're beat.... Every man is different, every hand is different... And if you need to inject action into your image, there is nothing like a 99 vs AQ coinflip shown faceup to get er goin (and if there is dead money, both sides look good)...