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1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot 1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot

03-09-2015 , 03:06 PM
Hand at South Point, where I've never played before so no reads other than the few hands since I sat down

Hero ($550): Just sat down a few hands ago, first orbit. Played one hand against V where he raises to $16 on button over a limp, I call in SB with 99, limper calls. Flop 268 hero leads $30, limper folds and accidentally exposes A7, V calls. Turn 8 hero checks, V bets $35, hero calls. River Q hero checks, V bets $120, hero calls. V shows JT and says "I missed"....not sure what he missed, a pair draw it appears.

V ($500): Mid-30's Asian guy, seems pretty aggro from the one orbit I've been there. First hand I sat down and V raises to $16 UTG, one person calls. Flop 893 V leads $26, other player calls. Turn 2 V leads $55, other player jams $160, V calls. River Q and V shows QxT, other player shows AKx

On to the hand....

A7 guy from previous hand limps, V limps in CO, hero raises $12 on button with 89, short stack in BB calls, both limpers call.

Flop ($49): 974

Checks to V, who leads $32. Hero calls, BB short stack shoves all in for $60 total, other limper folds, V quickly calls. Hero asks to call floor to see if I'm allowed to re-raise or not, figuring it probably gets the turn checked to me pretty often. Floor says I can raise (didn't expect that), but I just call.

Turn ($219): 5

V checks, hero checks.

River ($219): 9

V checks, hero bets $75, V quickly c/r to $300. Hero?
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 03:21 PM
I cannot imagine he has a worse 9 here, but hard to believe he checks river with better 9. I might have limped pre, but raise is good -- would have gone higher based on other two hands.

I don't like the "can I raise" angle, especially since you didn't follow through and then checked turn.

I just don't like the way the hand was played and think you are playing a guessing game on river (your hand doesn't look like a 9, so he might be bluffing, but he could easily have T9, K9 or A9, etc.). Unless you get some great read, I probably fold.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 03:43 PM
I am confused by the check on the on the turn. It would helped a lot in this hand and you may not have been in this situation. Is the V the kind to bet out on his draws? Like a flush draw or up and down straight draw? If not, then I call.

AP, I fold. the river check raise just screams so much strength.

I am discounting any 6-8 combos, as I rarely think they would bet out so strong, it feels like a set. The raise is just too strong on the river.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I cannot imagine he has a worse 9 here, but hard to believe he checks river with better 9. I might have limped pre, but raise is good -- would have gone higher based on other two hands.

I don't like the "can I raise" angle, especially since you didn't follow through and then checked turn.

I just don't like the way the hand was played and think you are playing a guessing game on river (your hand doesn't look like a 9, so he might be bluffing, but he could easily have T9, K9 or A9, etc.). Unless you get some great read, I probably fold.
Not an angle IMO. Every house has different rules, most places I can't raise since it's not a full raise over the $32. Good to know for future reference though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andorrak
I am confused by the check on the on the turn. It would helped a lot in this hand and you may not have been in this situation. Is the V the kind to bet out on his draws? Like a flush draw or up and down straight draw? If not, then I call.

AP, I fold. the river check raise just screams so much strength.

I am discounting any 6-8 combos, as I rarely think they would bet out so strong, it feels like a set. The raise is just too strong on the river.
I'm not betting turn with TPNK in a dry side pot against aggro V that is obviously capable of c/r or c/shoving turn with a wide range.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 04:16 PM
It seems like an angle to me if you ask if you can raise and then don't when you are told you can. Why did you ask? If it was to get the turn checked to you, why did you check behind?

I definitely bet the turn (especially after asking about raising the flop). Why did you raise this hand pre-flop, especially with a short stack behind you, if you are not going to follow through?

Why did you bet the river? What was he calling with? If it was to induce, you got your wish.

Last edited by Javanewt; 03-09-2015 at 04:22 PM.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
It seems like an angle to me if you ask if you can raise and then don't when you are told you can. Why did you ask? If it was to get the turn checked to you, why did you check behind?

I definitely bet the turn (especially after asking about raising the flop). Why did you raise this hand pre-flop, especially with a short stack behind you, if you are not going to follow through?

Why did you bet the river? What was he calling with? If it was to induce, you got your wish.
Don't see how it's angling to ask if I can raise, but ok. I raised pre because we have fish limp/calling $16 raises with A7o and I'm on the button fairly deep stacked. The short stack is in the blinds and there's two limpers, I'm not worried about the short stack....if only short stack calls and I flop any equity I'll just pile it in and see what happens for $60, but once short stack calls there's no way everyone else is folding.

I bet the river because he can call with any pair or even a hero ace high call. Seems unlikely for V to have a 9 in his hand and he probably raises all pocket pairs preflop given that he's opening QTo UTG for 8x. Thought it was kind of a weird spot where V is repping pretty thin, but then again, a river c/r is usually just the nuts.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Hero ($550): Just sat down a few hands ago, first orbit. Played one hand against V where he raises to $16 on button over a limp, I call in SB with 99, limper calls. Flop 268 hero leads $30, limper folds and accidentally exposes A7, V calls. Turn 8 hero checks, V bets $35, hero calls. River Q hero checks, V bets $120, hero calls. V shows JT and says "I missed"....not sure what he missed, a pair draw it appears.
I don't think I can fold to this guy.

Bottom of my calling range here is probably [TT, AJ+]

LOL at "that's an angle..." oh... ok... w/e.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 06:27 PM
I wouldn't say it's an angle; more like time-wasting shenanigans. If you're genuinely curious about the room's rules but have no intention of raising in this spot, you can ask the floor after the hand is finished; you don't need to stop play. Don't be that guy.

Normally this would be a pretty turbo-muck in a 1/2 game; given your "angle" on the flop (making it clear you never actually have a big hand and are just posturing) and read on villain it's closer. He probably can have a worse 9 too; definitely sounds like villain is capable of limp-calling 96o pre here, etc. I think it's close enough that I'd call just to avoid the implied tilt if you fold and he turns over worse. V definitely has a bluff here more often than a typical 1/2 player; maybe not quite often enough to call, but it's also possible (not super likely, but possible) that his bluff frequency in this spot is really high.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:16 PM
V would lead his whole value range otr. AhXh makes the most sense. I can't fold.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
V would lead his whole value range otr. AhXh makes the most sense. I can't fold.
V is probably raising Ax and especially Axs preflop if he's raising QTo UTG to 8x
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
V is probably raising Ax and especially Axs preflop if he's raising QTo UTG to 8x
You assigned that range when you bet river to get value from hero calls.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
You assigned that range when you bet river to get value from hero calls.
Unlikely Ax though IMO, probably has at least a pair or draw more often leading a wet flop into PFR. I mean we've got trips in a reasonably big pot...is there anyone really not betting that river? That would be ridiculously nitty.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:49 PM
Angle might be the wrong word, but asking if you can raise and then just calling and then checking the turn is very strange. Maybe this works to your advantage, and in that case, the river is almost a must call.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:53 PM
Yeah, a river c/r is normally very strong, but this guy seems special.

Seems like his most likely holdings are whiffed hearts, OESD, gut shots; spaz with 65, etc.

2.5:1, I call.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:53 PM
And yes, betting the river for value is mandatory.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-11-2015 , 03:08 PM
Ok, so seems like the consensus is to call.

Results:

Spoiler:
Hero calls, V has 7x, hero takes side pot, short stack takes main pot with 44. Weird for V to c/r $300 to win a $75 side pot since he still has to beat the short stack...
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote
03-13-2015 , 01:11 AM
It kinda makes sense although it's pretty spewy. He thinks your range is capped to overpairs so if he gets you to fold he has a chance to win the main pot with 7x against the guy that is all in.
1/2NL: River trips, get c/r big in dry side pot Quote

      
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