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1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way 1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way

04-20-2011 , 02:38 PM
Background: Been playing for about 5 hours and have shown the ability to be pretty aggro in position. Not too long ago I successfully hit quads against two players to triple up with them shoving into me drawing dead... So I have a $600 stack. This is my first live cash session ever, and I'm still pretty baffled by the limp fest this is, but have kinda played along.

Villian 1: White early 30s nit, $400 stack
Villian 2: Internet upper 20s hero call wannabe $500 stack
Villian 3: Fish $220 stack

6 limps in front of me, I'm BTN with AA.

I raise to $15, get 4 calls.

Flop Ah Jh 7c

Villian 1 bets $20, Villian 2 calls, Villian 3 calls. 1 fold. Hero??

Best line to maximize value is?!

Last edited by AHanrath; 04-20-2011 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Lol spellaments
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 02:44 PM
call, check-back turn, reevaluate river.

i go for a spewy play and raise to 75 here though
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 02:54 PM
$120 imo
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 03:05 PM
Raise more PF. $15 into 6 limpers + blinds isn't strong enough. $20-$25 will probably get you down to a more manageable field size (1 or 2). You'll get calls, don't worry about it.

OTF, I'd raise to ~$60 the majority of the time. You're going to get calls. In limp-fests like this, the way to get value is to value bet. calling the flop and checking back the turn is leaving money on the table/letting them get to showdown cheap. You're crushing everything here, and there are multiple draws on the board, so your plan needs to be to get as much money in the pot as possible.

The times I don't raise on the flop, I'm never checking back the turn. masaraksh, why are you checking back the turn?

Last edited by hfrog355; 04-20-2011 at 03:05 PM. Reason: LOL fish
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 03:22 PM
Raisy Daisy. To many draws on that flop, gotta set yourself up to jam the rest of your money on the turn. There are times to get creative with top set...but this aint one of them LOL
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 03:33 PM
Yeah I never thought about flatting the flop donk bet... Perhaps if it was A J 7 rainbow I think I would have.

1) Sizing on flop raise
2) A. Plans for turn on any heart, B. Any non heart
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHanrath
Yeah I never thought about flatting the flop donk bet... Perhaps if it was A J 7 rainbow I think I would have.

1) Sizing on flop raise
2) A. Plans for turn on any heart, B. Any non heart
1. Like I said earlier: raise more PF.

2. On any non-heart, your plan should continue to be get as many chips as possible into the pot - this is why the flop play is so important for you so you can get your stack in OTT. With a heart, you probably need to evaluate the action in front of you.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 04:00 PM
I think anywhere between $120-$140 is reasonable. This should set up a turn shove. You may not be able to get all of Villian 1 or Villian 2 money unless they decide they are going with their hand anyway, but that will definetly pot commit the fish who is going to close the action that betting round anyway. The fishes $200 stack may deter Vill 1 and 2from calling your raise because they prob recognize if he's continuing he's gonna jam when it gets back to him, so hopefully one them has a big hand that is DD to you
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 04:03 PM
Raise big, but small enough that the fish jamming opens the door for you.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brickcity31
I think anywhere between $120-$140 is reasonable. This should set up a turn shove. You may not be able to get all of Villian 1 or Villian 2 money unless they decide they are going with their hand anyway, but that will definetly pot commit the fish who is going to close the action that betting round anyway. The fishes $200 stack may deter Vill 1 and 2from calling your raise because they prob recognize if he's continuing he's gonna jam when it gets back to him, so hopefully one them has a big hand that is DD to you
I don't think I'd put in a raise this big (though I do think my original $60 suggestion is a bit on the small side - closer to $80 would be my ideal play). Since the nit fired first, he's probably folding everything that isn't a set. I'd rather raise small on the flop and then bomb the turn if a safe card hits. If OP's been living right, nit will have a set here and stack off. Otherwise, I think he's gone and you'll probably get a call out of at least one of the other two. You can then charge them max value on the turn.

Players like this don't think about pot size if the bet is for their stack. What they think about is "ZOMG, all my munies?" Build the pot OTF and then put him to a tough decision on the turn. The internet hero caller and the drooler aren't thinking about what you're going to do OTT, so get their checks in now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT
Raise big, but small enough that the fish jamming opens the door for you.
This is why I think I favor a smaller bet. It gives the nit a chance to break character and get out of hand with something like AK or AJ. I can't see a nit b/c in this spot with 2 players behind him. I think you're either going to see him come over you (yahtzee) or fold and then you're just facing the two morons. You can bet one of the two is coming along for a medium sized flop raise.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfrog355
I don't think I'd put in a raise this big (though I do think my original $60 suggestion is a bit on the small side - closer to $80 would be my ideal play). Since the nit fired first, he's probably folding everything that isn't a set. I'd rather raise small on the flop and then bomb the turn if a safe card hits. If OP's been living right, nit will have a set here and stack off. Otherwise, I think he's gone and you'll probably get a call out of at least one of the other two. You can then charge them max value on the turn.
Yeah I can see you not wanting to chase your customers away with a big raise, but I dont know if $60-$80 is enough on the flop to get stacks in by the river if 1 of the larger stacks has a big hand. You can prob stack the guy with $220, but if either of those guys with $400 or $500 have a hand they like you want their money. Dont wanna miss that opportunity. Besides, if the have a top2,set, or combo flush/straight draw type hand they are not folding anyway so get as much in as you can
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-20-2011 , 06:12 PM
I would raise to $100 to $120 and shove turn on any non heart that doesn't pair the board.
If the board pairs the turn I would make a 1/4 to 1/3 pot sized bet hoping to get flush draws to call and make their flush on river.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-21-2011 , 08:17 PM
Seems to be two common thoughts on the sizing.

$60-80 and allow nit/fish to shove over with more percieved fold equity.

$100-120 and jam turn with better sizing.

Likewise I went with a raise to $70, and got three folds.

After the hand (so it's probably bs) nit said he folded AK (he was utg) and Internet kid said he folded a weak flush draw and offered me $20 to show my pocket aces.... Which I did...

Nit Bet folding AK is horrible and I defintely percieved AK as a hand he'd stay with.... I think Internet kid shoves a lot of flush draws here so I think it was the right line... Didn't get max value, but it's interesting to see thoughts on the flop raise to $100-120. I think this may look more bluffy/drawy?

Last edited by AHanrath; 04-21-2011 at 08:28 PM.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote
04-21-2011 , 09:25 PM
I think a flat actually looks stronger than a big raise here around the $90 - $130 range. This might even be a good spot to overbet if you think it will induce a spaz from someone with Ax or a FD?

I don't believe for a second that nit folded AK... probably Ax or J-lol.

Last, +1 to raising more pre. $15 is more like a standard open or single limper open at most live $1/2. With a whopping 6 limpers in front of you I'd raise to $25 minimum.

EDIT: When I say a flat looks "stronger" what I mean is it's more likely to slow down the action, so you should raise not only because you want to get more money in the middle with your monster and tax draws - but because a big raise is (ironically) probably less likely to lose your customers than a flat.

Last edited by Blargle; 04-21-2011 at 09:31 PM.
1/2NL: Line Check w/ top set (AA) 250bbs effec multi-way Quote

      
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