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1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? 1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what?

01-19-2012 , 02:13 AM
Also, in hindsight, I like a raise the flop and either get it in there or shove the turn line. I don't think the passive line is terrible, but I was getting close to the end of the session and I think I let that factor tip the scales in favor of playing things more passively. I know that I should be more concerned with making the right decisions than just "booking a win," so I wanted to see how other people approached it.

Also:

Spoiler:
the river card was a 3
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 04:05 AM
Thread would have been better if you made hero? On the 3
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 04:52 AM
So what was the action otr?
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigoldnit
Because it can make nutted-type hands... Obviously, I'll be very careful if I only flop top pair, but you can win some big pots if you flop two pair, a somewhat disguised broadway straight, or overflush a limper who has 78s, no? In a limped pot, with fairly deep stacks, and in position, it's worth seeing a flop, am I right?
KTs doesn't make many nut hands. You might overflush a guy with 78s, but if $400 goes in there's a good chance it's you who is getting overflushed by Axcc.

I raise this preflop all day every day from the button, but maybe I'm too aggro.
-----

OTT you're getting more than enough odds to call unless someone has the NFD. They very easily could given the action (which is why KTss is not a super premium preflop hand), but I don't think you can fold given the action.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
So what was the action otr?
3 hits the river... V1 shoves, V2 calls, Hero pukes
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:22 AM
Yeah don't see us being good here. We probably have V2 beat but V1 has to have 66 here, although that is pretty much the only exact hand he could have that makes sense. If he was a good thinking player he could also shove the nut flush for value but his turn bet isn't consistent with that hand. Since he's at least somewhat competent I think we have no choice but to fold here.

Last edited by daniel9861; 01-19-2012 at 10:29 AM.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigoldnit
3 hits the river... V1 shoves, V2 calls, Hero pukes
because hero is forced to fold, correct? Very interesting hand. As it turned out (can't judge a play by results) it cost you the minimum. Grunching here, the way you played it, if a club hits on the river and V1 checks I guess you'd have V2 pretty much going to call a value bet by you, maybe even V1. Just have to figure out how much to bet. If you hit your straight without the flush you'll have to sell it to V1. But you could have made your hand on the turn and you have to factor in that as well. To me, evaluating the best way to play this hand is complicated after the flop. Could be convinced otherwise though.

Last edited by adios; 01-19-2012 at 10:48 AM.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuxxnuts
KTs in ep, sure, okay I suppose a limp is okay, but never, ever on btn... And it does not play well multiway. Your reverse implied sucks major in most scenarios
I think I disagree with this in general. I think suited broadway cards generally play fairly well multiway (nut straight potential and high flush potential vs other high card hands that could easily be hitting two pair) as long as we don't get super excited about flopping TP. I agree that they have some yucky RIO if they're not nut Ace broadway flush hands, and if we flop two pair we might find ourselves in the same bad situation we we're looking to lay on someone else. But we have position and hopefully we can use that to get away when required. I think overlimping multiple limpers on the button is super standard with these types of hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 12:22 PM
Wow, what a sucky spot on the river. If I've added things up right, the shove is actually for slightly less than the pot size, plus other villain's call, so we're getting 190:530 (i.e. 2.8:1)? I'm not worried about V2, he could have any piece. How tilty is V1? Could this still be a wtf shove with QJ or perhaps a AQ/KQ? QQ/JJ (and AA/KK) probably would have raised preflop; not sure if Q6/J6 is playing preflop, but I guess in a limped pot they could. Could he be tilt barrelling with a flush draw that got there? Could he be barrelling with a OESD that whiffed and yet tilt shoves into a bad river card? It sure does look like 66, but getting almost 3:1, we only have to be good here 26% of the time. Ug. I probably making a crying call and hate myself.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 03:34 PM
*grunch*

Pre is fine.

Raise flop to $45-50. I'm happy getting stacks in here if he 3bets us and we will always play QJ & 66 like this so there's balancing too. Additionally, if we only call and hit it on the turn, will he pay us off? If called, players will likely check to us where we can decide to pot control & take a free river (if it bricks) or barrel.

As played, call. I don't think we're getting folds from a raise and the pot will be big enough that we can shove river if we hit.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 04:17 PM
OTR V1 is screaming boat. He is competent so I don't see him betting into 2 callers otr, especially when the draw hits. (What could you both have had if he doesn't) Also, his image of V2 is that he will call the river bet if its anything like the description you put. Not an easy fold, but save yourself the disappointment of seeing a boat/bigger flush.

IMO, I would have raised the flop. 15 outs, possibly 18 (you never know), if you get it all in is not bad against any 2 cards he is holding, plus added FE is always a major major factor.

OTT, the way you played, you can only call, never shove, you will get called.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 09:10 PM
Final river action
Hero tank folds [I almost called b/c of the V1 tilt factor, but ultimately decided that V1 has the boat and/or V2 has nut flush a super high percentage of the time. Also, as I said in an earlier post, I was probably a little gun shy about giving back the money I had managed to grind out during the session.]

Results
Spoiler:
V1 has AQ and v2 has J 7

So, V1 (a) probably was a bit tilty, but also might have thought he could get folds b/c he knows that neither V2 nor hero should have a boat b/c of the way we played our hands, and neither of us can have the nut flush, so we'd each have to be afraid that the other one did. V1 left immediately after the hand, so I didn't get to pick his brain, and I reinforced my conviction to not try to get V2 to lay down a big hand.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 09:35 PM
As played i think It's a call. your getting 3:1 for now plus theres a very high chance with stack sizes the way they are that you'll get someone to stack off if you hit your card. Obviously its terrible if someone has the Ace high flush draw & it comes in or If the board pairs with a club but I think you have around the implied odds you need to make the call as well as position. Don't bluff if you miss.

P.S. I personally would've raised the flop
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:22 PM
Would it be considered correct that a any TAG should get it in on the flop with that draw or only a LAG. The reason I bring it up is getting it in here when this situation arises seems we are slightly better than 50% equity which means we will be experiencing a lot of variance if we make this play every time due to being +EV.

I agree that in a vacuum this would be a go everytime with the small edge, but in real life you would need a bankroll large enough to handle the variance that getting it in with a small margin of equity provides. Does that sound correct? One reason I put this forth is that the OP also stated it was near the end of a session and she kinda wanted to keep the win from the session.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:42 PM
EDIT: Nvm, didn't see it was a paired board. Yeah I fold here too.

Last edited by 11t; 01-19-2012 at 10:48 PM.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Play_So_Bad
Would it be considered correct that a any TAG should get it in on the flop with that draw or only a LAG. The reason I bring it up is getting it in here when this situation arises seems we are slightly better than 50% equity which means we will be experiencing a lot of variance if we make this play every time due to being +EV.

I agree that in a vacuum this would be a go everytime with the small edge, but in real life you would need a bankroll large enough to handle the variance that getting it in with a small margin of equity provides. Does that sound correct? One reason I put this forth is that the OP also stated it was near the end of a session and she kinda wanted to keep the win from the session.
Interesting question, and makes me think about how our opponents' perceptions of us could influence how we play a particular hand.

I'd say that both lags and tags could raise on the flop (we have so much equity, and b/c a semibluff is credible since a raise looks like a strong made hand that is trying to protect/get value on a wet board).

However, assuming that we are up against opponents who are at least somewhat conscious of how loosely/tightly we are playing, a lag will probably be called lighter while a tag might get more folds, but is going to be up against a stronger range when called... So perhaps V1 folds AQ/KQ to a tag raise, but is more willing to call a raise, and maybe even get it in against a lag...I don't think anyone is ever folding two pair or 66 on the flop.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-19-2012 , 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigoldnit
Final river action
Hero tank folds [I almost called b/c of the V1 tilt factor, but ultimately decided that V1 has the boat and/or V2 has nut flush a super high percentage of the time. Also, as I said in an earlier post, I was probably a little gun shy about giving back the money I had managed to grind out during the session.]

Results
Spoiler:
V1 has AQ and v2 has J 7

So, V1 (a) probably was a bit tilty, but also might have thought he could get folds b/c he knows that neither V2 nor hero should have a boat b/c of the way we played our hands, and neither of us can have the nut flush, so we'd each have to be afraid that the other one did. V1 left immediately after the hand, so I didn't get to pick his brain, and I reinforced my conviction to not try to get V2 to lay down a big hand.
And here lies the problem with your pre and post flop play. You played a passive line at every point and it was an easy river fold to continue your line.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-20-2012 , 01:35 AM
The problem here is that by the river you have villain 1's hand narrowed down to 2 hands 66, or maybe AJ of clubs, where in reality there are still combo's that he pushes with that you beat. Any J x of clubs where X is not the ace (he was the BB and could have any combo). Also, not that I consider it likely, but he could still be pushing with qj out of frustration in a big pot.

Everyone was quick to discount villain two, including OP, so I don't know why we are not still doing the same. We assumed right along that he had a draw, and he is bad, so I think its obvious that he would call with any flush he hits here.

Given the price I think I call here often unless I had played with villain one several times and knew he would only be pushing boats or nut flushes on this river.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote
01-20-2012 , 01:37 AM
Honestly I dont really ever give credit to the villain here for 66 either because I would say that 95% of 1/2 NL players check into the field when flopping a set, even on this sort of board.
1/2NL - Flopped a huge draw, bricked the turn, now what? Quote

      
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