Villain1 utg $160 : loose preflop, straight forward postflop

Villain2 utg+1 $700 : tag

Villain3 mp $700 : older white male between 50-60 years old. tag image. hero doubled up through this villain earlier in the session when hero flopped a set vs his AA

Villain4 hj $200 : tight passive

Hero co $320 : tag image

Villain5 sb $300 : tag image


Preflop $3
V1 opens to $5
V2 call
V3 3bets to $20
V4 call
H calls 88
V5 call
V1 call
V2 call
Bb fold

Flop $122 J85
checks to villain3
V3 bets $75
H ?

I know I'm going to raise, the question is how much?

just bump it to 150... and shove / value the next street

150.

Why raise? Just call and hope others come along for the ride. Sure you might give a cheap draw to 9T or 67 but I'm taking that risk and letting V bet or shove the turn.

This.
If stacks were deeper, it would be different, but if you just call and no one else calls, which is the worst case, there's $275 in the pot, and you've only got $225 behind. Easy easy shove for value on any turn if he bets, and if not just go $125 leaving your self a lol stack of $100 to shove in on any river.

If anyone else calls then the pot will be $350 or more, so just shove every turn.
It's unlikely that most people will call with a draw for $75, it's a psychological barrier for a lot of people who don't think too much about IO with stack sizes and all that.

I don't think that raising is bad per say, and if you do raise to $150, not more as you don't want to scare him off. But I think there is more value to be had in trying to get 1 other person into the hand and take another ~+$45EV by letting someone else come along.

if i were just as deep as villain, would you suggest flatting the flop as well?

I also like a call with the plan to get it in on all turns.

V3 probably has an overpair or at least AJ. Another villain may call with Jx if you just call the 75 but will fold to a raise. Letting someone draw on one street with OK odds can't be too bad given a) you'll offer them only 1 card, b) it's not particularly likely someone has a draw, c) you'll have 10 outs as a re-draw if needed.

Think the amount of value you could get from loose Jx calls behind on the flop by far trumps the risk someone gets a cheap card.

If you are 700 deep then I'm raising flop to $200 and then going $200 on turn and shoving river.

Fold pre. Flat flop.

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

really fold pre? i think both hero and villain are deep enough to be profitably set mining

Hero is 320 deep only. Betting is opened. We're not guaranteed to always win or get paid off if we hit set. Set mining is definitely not simply 8-1 or 10-1. It's a huge misconception.

Our hand is super face up. I believe we're going to lose money long term in this spot.

That said, it's mostly flop that's definitely a flat.

Yeah I call pre. It's borderline but profitable I think.

Pro:
16x in stacks behind should be sufficient depth.
Raise and 3-bet in front suggest strong hands and better implied odds.

Con:
You don't close action against the initial raiser.

The only pause I would have before I snap call pre is to consider if V1 is simply doing a l/r-ish move with his little open. So I don't want to have to call the $20, only to fold to a 4b from V1.

Having said that, I cannot see any other reason not to flat preflop and just setmine. I don't understand what Sol Reader is talking about when he says, "NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. " -- of course its close! We're 160bb deep, and have 15x implied odds -- seems like a good spot to set mine to me. (It would be borderline to call with 87s, and I probably would not.)

As to the flop action. What I want to know first is: Will V3 be carrying a grudge against us for doubling up in the earlier set hand? And what will this do to his playing tendencies?

E.g. if he's going to try to run over Hero and deny draws, then I prefer to flat the flop, hope to get some bystanders involved and try to get it in on the turn.

OTOH, if V3 is going to shut down in frustration after we flat the flop, then clearly its better to raise him here and put him to a decision.

In a vacuum, and since the board is only damp (i.e. S2G can have 2p but no SC or S1G hit 2p, no flush draw, only 1 broadway card), I probably flat the flop action and see how things go on the turn.

If you're going to raise here, I probably just huge-overbet-shove and make it look like you're trying to take it down. This almost certainly guarantees that everyone else folds, but it might be the best way to get V3 to call. The raise to $150-180 is going to be taken as super strength in the face of all the other players.

In fact, its only betting $300 into ~$200, and its only $225 for V3 to call, 2.2:1, 31% equity. V3 has plenty of equity to call if he thinks Hero can do this with non-sets (which might actually be impossible, IDK). But it will be a huge bet. (If I did shove, I might be inclined to show my hand after everyone folds so that I can setup overbet-shoves as bluffs in the future.)

since our stack size is 320 i just call, if we have 600+ then raise to 200