Hero ($500): Late 20's reg sat down about an hour ago, probably seen as LAGish, have taken stabs at a few pots OOP with favorable flops. Missed a few combo draws bleeding off $50-100 at a time, but took down a few pots with some two-street value with top pair too.

V1 ($200): Hispanic guy probably mid-20's, seems a little fishy and unsure of how to play his hands, has shown some weird bet sizing both with big hands and in spots where he was obviously beat. His preflop raise size telegraphs his hand strength, $7-10 for weaker hands and $15 for stronger ones.

V2 ($500): Another late 20's white kid, seems competent, has been raising pre to $15 relatively often in LP and his preflop raise is always $15, though I have not seen him raise a hand with a bunch of limpers in front. VPIP is something like 20/15

V3 ($2000): Older guy maybe 50-55 years old, running like nothing I've ever seen. One of my friends told me he was hitting everything including winning a $1500 pot with 66 against KQ and a flush draw on a QQ6 flop when the FD overbet shoved the flop and my friend with KQ re-shoved and just happened to run into the nuts. On that hand V3 lead out for $15 into a $75 pot, flush draw shoved $185 before my friend re-shoved. When I sat down the first three back-to-back-to-back hands I was there he had AQ on a KQ6Q board, KK getting it with an overpair vs top pair, and flopped a straight with a SF redraw. Dude cannot miss.

Hero dealt 77

V1 raises to $15, V2 calls, V3 calls, hero calls, SB calls.

Flop ($75): 873

V1 leads $20, V2 min-raises to $40, V3 flats the $40. Hero? If we raise, what is the plan for spade turns when called?

We obv raise here.V2's min-raise is weird, but smells like a draw which doesn't respect the tiny c-bet and wants to set up playing for stacks. V3 likely also has a draw, unless he's bad enough to flat 2-pair here.

V1 is likely gone when we raise, given action, but we still want to raise pretty damn big to overcharge V3, even if V2 calls.

Given that pot is already $175 and that we'll be making it $215 with our call with about $445 back, I just shove here. A PSB not only commits us but also leaves a silly small bet for turn, and an overbet shove with a LAGGY image and a V who likely has winners tilt may often look FOS to him and get looked up.

I'd be looking at V1 for any indication of what he is going to do. He's pretty short, plus you state his preflop sizing indicates strength. If we think there's a pretty good chance he will raise/shove, we can risk a flat call here, to hopefully get a bunch more dead money in the pot before we announce our strength. Flat calling here with position doesn't look THAT strong, since the bet sizing is so small, and the pot so big.

With that said, calling and having V1 fold or call would be a minor disaster, as there are a ton of bad turn cards.

Barring a clear tell from V1 indicating that he will be raising/shoving when it gets back to him, I'm popping it to $200. Probably never folding on the turn.

Just shove I think V3 gonna call with a draw anyways so may aswell get it in winning instead of a decision on the turn. Calling is a terrible play imo make them pay for the draws your pretty much getting called by overs with the draw and 9 10 spades. I have no problem shoving anyways

I'd raise to 150, if spade/bad card hits turn I'll check back if checked to. Shoving isn't too terrible as there's a lot of dead money in the pot already. Not folding on flop. If they have 88 that's just a cooler.

I like Dubey's point about flatting. Noone will fake that they're going to shove in V1's spot, so we could maaaybe risk getting greedy if he is dangling his stack over the line while drooling on the felt.

It is an awkward stack size for either a pot sized raise or a shove. I'd prefer to just pot it though I see the merit of shoving. I just feel like vils are peeling a PSB with some draws that they are not calling 475 with, and we wont really have a tough decision on the turn no matter what, because we has a boat draw!

i say flat and let V1 take a donk stab at it. then go for the kill on the turn.

I make it $115 to go. I'm raising for value and PRAYING V1 ships it so I can repop if someone calls.

Given the stack sizes, I may just shove here, hoping that V3 is feeling invincible enough that he'll put it in with just spades.

In any case, I'm going to make a big raise, and as a result, I'm not sure if I'll be able to fold later in the hand.

The most interesting aspect of this hand may be in determining what type of hand V2 is min raising with. I think it could be a wide range of things, such as 99-JJ, 87, 88, 33, two spades, or maybe even T9 (not as likely). I'd lean toward an overpair, top two, or a flush draw.

This is a tough call. If we make a huge raise and the big stack calls us, we're going to be sick if a spade comes on the turn. Then again, a shove might be overkill.

I think my final answer is to make a weird raise to 275 (210 behind) and hope V2 either gets it in or folds. Cross the spade bridge when we get there, as bad as that may sound. If the turn is a spade and we get shoved on, maybe we can fold, even though I hate blasting off >50% of my chips and then folding later.

+1

Anything less then shoving results in really awkward stacks left.

Anyway, we don't want anyone to fold when the board pairs.

Having said that, V3's flat make me want to f'n die. He's got a monster, IMO.

I'd raise to $165 which would put V1 AI to call. AI on a non-spade turn, evaluate if a spade hits depending on who and how many are in. The beauty of position.

Stack size vs. potential pot OTT is a bit awkward, but I think AI OTF folds most ranges except for perhaps V1. Yes, Mr. En Fuego is in the hand, so he may feel all powerful enough to come along.

V3 is on the heater of his life and thinks any draw he holds will hit.

plus, even though normally a cold call of a raise is a monster, in this case, even the $40 raise is a really small bet in relation to the pot. I would think he has a much wider range than a typical cold caller would have.

I think a shove here is losing value. I'd make it $200 flat and shove the turn, even a spade. More likely to get paid off that way.

If the villain makes the spade flush on the turn, you'd still practically get the right odds. It would be about $285 more to win $800 (assuming one caller on the flop re-raise), which is about 26.3% equity when you have a 22.8% chance to win. And that's the worst case scenario (except for three eights).

If you want to assure yourself of the right odds to call even if the spade hits, make it about $250 flat. Then you have to call $235 to win $850, which is 21.7% and you have a 22.8% chance to win.

Agree with this. Even a fish on a heater is going to take pause when you shove $500 on the flop and fold a draw. But if you bet $200, he'll likely make a LOLpotodds call and then feel committed when you shove the rest in on the turn. Shoving is going to lose you quite a bit of value IMO.

This is a spot where live tells can help us a lot.

If V1 looks like he's itching to raise we MUST flat here and then re-pop when it gets back to us.

If we don't see such an indication I think we should raise. I'm torn between some screwball raise like $100 flat that would reopen the action if V1 shoves, and something closer to $225-240.

I'm not concerned about the flush. Unless we flat and V1 flats behind it doesn't matter. Once we get a raise in now we can't fold the turn. We'll still have a lot of equity against a made flush, enough that we should be good against any reasonable range.

(I fully expect V3 to call with 33 and turn quads here.)

At the time I thought V1 had overcards and missed otherwise he probably bets more than $20 on the flop. Not really worried about him, he's giving up unless he has JJ+

In that case I go with a good solid raise here. Don't think shipping is a good idea. $240.

This was my read on V1 too given OP's description of him.

I might say AKs (or at least A), but I wouldn't necessarily expect him to Cbet at all with AK (unless it was exactly AK). So I figured he may have something like [QQ-JJ, AKs].

$225, jam turns. This way we mathematically never make a mistake gii on any turn plus combo draws and nfd aren't folding so we get value

I don't hate a PSR and jam turn, it's just that the turn bet is so silly small, and fish on a heater thinks all his draws are coming, so I think the shove is just a bit better.

If we make it $225-250 and get a call, flush comes in and it checks to us. Do we still shove just because the math is right? Or do we take the free card?

Yes, it's basically a shove then because our equity is too good based on the pot size in relation to our overall equity. If you raise smaller (like 140-180$), shoving the turn when the draw gets there is not as good

Taking the free card is bad because (theoretically) our villains could fold the river if the board pairs. So we've taken all the risk OTF, but do not get full compensation when we hit.

Raise to $190 on flop. Shoving is really bad. The whole idea of "dont leave an akward stack size behind" is fine beginner mentality, but it leaves a ton of value on the table for more experienced players.

Shoving most turns (including most spades), but factors that may sway me towards a check:
How many players are in the hand on the turn? More is bad if a spade comes

Also, if a spade comes, what kind of spade is it? Does it also complete straights?

$225-250 is fine too, and obviously makes it mathematically more correct to shove any turn, but i hate having bigger=better sizing tells, $190 is already about 3/4 pot