Villain- Pretty new to the table. Haven't seen him play any pots at all though besides the occasional limp. He has $215 to start the hand.

Hero- Playing tight aggressive. $350 to start the hand.


Villain limps for $2 UTG.
I see KK and raise it up to $12.
Everyone folds but villain.


Pot is $24.

Flop comes

Q 9 7 rainbow.

He checks. I bet $20 and he calls.

Turn comes 5.

Pretty good turn card but not great. If he had 86, he made the nuts. If he had 75, he made 2 pair but chances are if i was ahead on the flop, i'm ahead on the turn. I can't see this guy calling preflop to a raise and limping with these hands.

I bet $50 into $62. He takes a while and calls.

River comes 3. No flush possibility at all.

He checks. I put him all in for $115 or so. He calls and I think i have the best hand and he shows QQ for a set. What is worst he kept showing and saying 3 queens... when i said yes... i see that.


Did i overplay my KK here? The thing is throughout that whole hand... I put him on AQ the whole time. Or something like JJ/1010 as he basically checked to me 3 times in a row. I really felt that i was valuebetting but what ended up being valueowning. I'm surprised he checked 3 times to me. I mean... he probably put me on AK as i was betting pretty big on flop and turn and he thought i had nothing.

The reason why i bet this was because there been many times where the board is similar like this like J 8 5 7 3 and villain had QQ while i had KK. But the difference in these situations was the villain there wasn't tight like this villain. This guy played pretty tight.

I did thought for about 5 seconds if i should check the river... but when you get check to 3 times in a row... I mean its hard to not bet KK right? This villain was tight so when he called my big flop bet and big turn bet... should i just have shown it down? Now if we were both real deep... then i might check this. But when he checked the river... he only had $110 left and pot was $162 and this to me is a perfect shove for value, only to valuetown myself.

My SPR was about 9 in this hand so at the end maybe 2 streets of value is enough? I do know SPRs that are high isn't great with big pairs if you are only playing a one pair hand.

While reading I put him on AQ, KQ, or JJ, so he had me fooled too. I don't think it was overplayed, your bet on the flop and turn were fine. By the time the river comes we have to feel we are good since he has checked twice and his actions so far fit the range that we assigned him. I would say this is just an unlucky hand by the way villian played it. If you checked the river you would be losing value over time because IMO most of the time we are not facing a set in this situation.

I'm checking back this river. With more information, I'm certainly value betting this most of the time. However, in this spot, with little info on villain, check back to see just what kinds of hands he's limp calling UTG with and take note.

I wish you hadn't put villains actual hand in your post. You're feedback will probably be tainted.

That said, if I were in the hand I don't think I would have been too excited about getting $203 into the pot postflop with an overpair when the preflop pot was $24 without a read my opponent was a calling station. If I knew he was a calling station then I play the hand the same way you did. If I didn't think he was a station then I would either bet 2 streets for value or bet 3 streets, but go smaller on the sizes. I think ~half pot on each street would be ok. My preference usually is to bet 2 streets.

Hi. How much would you be willing to put in postflop with $24 preflop. According to Professsional No limit holdem book... it says 4x the pot is the max. For an average player... its 6 and for a loose player its 10. So here... i got in 9x the amount which according to the chart... is pretty bad. Now if i checked the river... then there would only be 2 streets of value.

It was just his check 3 times in a row... made me felt KK was good. I mean, if a guy is very tight... I won't go 3 streets on him. This guy was tight but i only seen him play for 30 minutes max which isn't enough time. His check on the river was so good though. Now had he went all on the river... I would have folded. I actually recalled he took some time before checking to me on the river. Then again... i really think he thought i was bluffing with Ak the whole time.

I agree with your thinking here. Half pot on each street. The thing is I dont like betting small when i have an overpair and the thing is had he had say J10...i don't want to bet 1/2 the pot as it would give him good implied odds if he was drawing. I'm thinking a better idea is bet 3/4 on pot... then 1/2 pot on turn? Problem here is some good players might interpret the 1/2 pot turn as weak and then raise you on it though very few do this. It seems like most ppl at 1/2Nl who are good players just play straight TAG with the occassional big bluff.

Well played, imo. Against a relatively unknown player I'm definitely going for three streets of value and trying size my bets so that I can make a river shove of about the size you did.

Obviously once we see how he played this we know to be a bit more cautious in future, note that he limps big pairs in early position and that he slow plays all the way with big hands on dry boards, and try to use this later.

KK will be towards the bottom of our value betting range on the river, and if you're not value-owning yourself from time to time then you're not value betting thin enough.

Also bear in mind that on boards like this TPTK/TPGK are a huge part of villains range, and that it's hard to flop a set. Even if villain only pays us off on the river with AQ then there are still more combos of that than flopped sets, and since two pair/straight are unlikely the value bet is still good.

Thanks. Well most players i play against are unknowns. I mentioned he played tight but it was only 30 minutes into a session. But would you say thats sufficient time to label a person?

Yea... i thoguht his hand was AQ so much. That or something like JJ/1010. Its hard to put him on a set when he checks 3 times to me. It was a great play by him. Had i had AK... i most likely check turn and be done with the hand.

I mean... on the turn... I did feel a bit worried after he check called $50 into $62 pot. At that time i was thinking good chance he had flopped a set of 9s... but obviously not QQ.

I kinda wished he had donked the river though because had he done this, i woulda laid my KK down.

Most villains aren't going to play nutted hands this way. This is as good a run out for your hand as you can get so wp imo.

this

you got coolered

if the flop was J 9 7 and the turn and river were th esame the hand wuld have been the same and you would have stacked him

nh

Today I thought checking behind with JJ on a 7 high board bc of th esame reason but instead i shoved and th eguy called with 1010

shove for value and if you get cooled then nh

I would have played it the exact same way, he apparently wasn't super confident about how to play his hand, and you're pretty much readless here anyway.

Against a pondering unknown bet/bet/shove is super standard. Note that he's an idiot who doesn't know you're allowed to bet or raise, probably a gigantic mega fish, and move on.

It's fine. b/b/b is perfect here imo. So many times you check back otr and you have him beat and miss a lot of value.

Trying not to be tainted by the results, but playing devil's advocate: Anyone think a check behind on the turn isn't a bad play? I guess the board is a little wet with 975 and we're afraid of an 8 or 6, but beyond that, what other rivers would concern us? And then on the river, if he checks again we know we're good, and if he bets we're ahead against a lot of his range?

When in doubt I always fall back on the "big hand, big pot" mentality. If I haven"t made two pair at least by the turn then I am wondering just what this guy is calling with and
would have checked back on the river. You may lose some value once in a while but you won't lose a lot very often.

I wish I had posted on this sooner so it wouldn't be recycled....u played it fine. I may have bet a different amount on some streets but my money is more than likely going all in. I have had nights like this where you don't k the person but you feel like you have to take the shot....**** happens

I think our play is pretty bad if we read villain for being pretty tight and having JJ/TT. A tight villain is never calling 3 postflop streets with JJ/TT with an overcard on board. When he calls the big turn bet, he should never show up with JJ/TT.

Against a tight player, there is only a couple possible hands we're getting 3 streets of value with. AQ is going to have a tough time folding. KQ could possibly find a fold. QJ- probably finds a fold.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the hand. In the end, we got 108 BBs into the pot with a hand as little as one pair against a tight player, and in general, I think that's a mistake. I think perhaps we could have bet less on each street (JT is the only real draw), and/or I would have usually taken a pot control line of checking the turn to ensure a river bet is always paid off. Most would probably consider this too weak (and they might be right).

GcluelessNLnoobG

While reading I thought he was on AQ, KQ, QJ, JJ, or TT, but where I play I don't think villains are calling three streets of value for their entire stack with these hands. After the flop call, my plan would probably be to either check back the turn and bet/fold the river or bet the turn and check back the river if he continued to slow play it.

While I already commented that I think your ship is fine, here is a better example of overplaying KK, and even this I'm not entirely sure of:

Hero $300
SB ($200) Massive donk
BB ($150) Passive fish


Hero is dealt KK

Hero raises to $10
SB calls
BB calls

Flop ($30) J:67

SB bets $85
BB goes all-in
Hero goes all-in
SB calls

SB shows QJ
BB shows 67
Hero shows KK

Now this was a snap shove over SB all night because he's truly awful and I could care less what he has. But BB was a bit tough. I just didnt think he'd do this with the nuts and figured he might be overplaying AJ. That plus I simply dont have it in me to fold overpairs to fish regardless of the action. I've been shown too many top pairs and gutshots in these situations to fold anymore. Meh.

looks fine
He limp/calls pre QQ UTG, take a note and move on

The average LLSNL player will pay you off with AQ and KQ 100% of the time

Jamest, keep the threads to a min, more quality, less quantity, ya dig?