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1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand 1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand

02-13-2015 , 07:29 AM
Seat 9: Hero $370 Stack; 21yo White Male, TAG image at the table.

Seat 7: Villain 1 $210 Stack; Early 30s White Male, Maniac at the table. In for $1100, getting into many hands and Straddling Button/UTG 100% of the time raising it with Axs, 2 paint and 22+ to anywhere from $30-$50. Got into a hand with me calling him down for $200 pot with 66 on a [3c 5c Ah Qd 8s] board making him feel like hes out to get me.

He straddle the button for $5 im in the BB with As9s and I call. He has the image of raising most of his button straddle, i would probably just call his raise for $40ish. 2 others call and options on him. He checks.

4 way pot

Flop [Ah Qs 5c]
Pot: $20

Hero Checks
Seat 1 Checks
Seat 5 Checks
Villain Bets $20
Hero call
Seat 1 Folds
Seat 5 Folds

Turn [Ah Qs 5c][8c]
Pot: $60

As the Turn card is coming he says "Are you floating with another sh** pocket pair?" I say nothing at all and play my hand.

Hero Checks
Villain Bets $35

He makes the bet and says "Get off your draws, its not worth it."

Hero Raises to $70
Villain Snap shoves $118 on top.

The whole time he has his cards away as if hes about to muck them stating that i should fold. He did this when I tank called him with 66.

I tank for about 90 seconds and hes talking to me stating to get off my draws. I tell him I dont believe he has Ax due to not raising in the straddle and only checked. So he could have Q5, Qx, 55 at best. Possible flush draw as well. He then says "You're really gonna call me with Ax?"

Whats your thoughts on what I should do? What i could have changed? Should I have called? Should I have folded? If I should have folded, when should I?
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 08:32 AM
Why would you raise the turn lol
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 08:48 AM
In my head, I felt like he didnt have an ace, and I was stronger than him.
Is calling the 35 worse than min raising to show strength?
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adikar
In my head, I felt like he didnt have an ace, and I was stronger than him.
Is calling the 35 worse than min raising to show strength?
If you felt he didn't have an ace, why raise? That is to say, why are you raising TP unless you feel he'll call with worse? Versus this aggro type player you need to let him hang himself. TP is the nuts.

AP, I fold. His line is pretty strong: b/3b shove in a limped pot, he could have anything. The board is fairly dry so it's hard to imagine he's moving with a draw. If he's a donk and will overplay TP, that's one thing. If that's the case, I call. Otherwise, fold.
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 10:35 AM
Raising the turn is pure spew.
You had a +EV check/call plan with top pair against a maniac who is always leading with worse.

You don't want to show strength, you want to show weakness so he keeps firing with worse.

As played, it's almost certainly a fold, unless he has history of 3bet shipping really light.
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 11:26 AM
You have a great showdown hand against a spewy villain.

Turn was the mistake. You have a great hand to just check/call down the streets.

When he checks that button, I guess he is pretty weak.(would he normally do that?) But I wouldn't open raise with this especially being 2nd to act.

AP fold fold fold.
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02-13-2015 , 12:54 PM
Gross. I hate folding here, but I never would have raised turn. If you thought you were good, call and let him barrel again. Probably a fold, but I'd level myself into calling. (But I wouldn't be here).
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 02:40 PM
PF: Fold. Not sure why we are play A9, even if it's suited, in a button straddled pot. We have so many more people to act and we're OOP PF and OOP post flop. Need to fold.

F: Pot is $20. SPR is about 10. We have TPWK and a backdoor flush draw. V didn't raise his straddle so he doesn't have an Ace, gut shot broadway, or a set; you stated that 100% of time he is raising an Ace, two paint cards, or a pair on his straddle. We check and V fires pot. What does he have? A Queen, Q5, or just a 5 and that's it according to your read. So we are crushing him here.

You said he was a maniac, so the plan should be just to call and let him hang himself on every street. Just Call. EZ Game.

T: Pot is $60 and the effective stack is $185. It's funny that he asks you if you are "floating". V clearly doesn't understand what "floating" is. Again just call. No reason to raise. We know we are calling down.

As played, I have no idea why we are check/raising here. All c/r does is allow him to fold, his likely air here. When we min c/r here we've put in about 50% of the effective stack. We need to know this, and need to know what we are going to do if he shoves.

So he shoves our check raise. According to your read of his pre-flop raising straddle tendencies, the only had that beats us is Q5, Q8, and 85. That's it! So we should be happy to call this.

Not even sure why we are tanking here. We should have already known what to do when we check/raised. We are happy to call.

Edit: After reading the other responses, I have no idea why people are recommending folding. You've given us your reads and if those reads are correct, there is no way we should be folding. Based on the preflop reads, his range is mostly air here and considering the history we have, it looks like this may be just a "I'm going to get this guy" shove. IMHO, we shouldn't be folding given: reads, history, and putting almost half the effective stack in the pot.

Last edited by Below Zero; 02-13-2015 at 02:52 PM.
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 04:17 PM
Easy fold pre. You said it yourself he has been raising most straddles to 30-40 and do you really want to call that with an easily dominated hamd just because it is suited. Its not just you two at the table and if he pops his straddle you are first to act with others behind hand. Terrible spot to limp preflop. Best case scenario preflop is he raises to 40 you call amd everyone else folds BUT you are now playimg a pot with an effective SPR of about 1.5 and have to stack off on any flop you hit.
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02-13-2015 , 05:01 PM
So, I happen to call, due to $220 in the pot calling for $110. He had KTo, and hit a gut shot Jd on the river taking the pot.

So what i got from this post is

PF - Since I'm early position no matter what, find a better spot with A9s since I know he raises Button to 30+ with the hands in which I listed. I feel like raising preflop here wasnt a good idea. So to avoid this situation, fold pre.

F - Since I did call and was 4 handed, in order to help this flop play, is there a reason to check min-raise here when he bets pot with 2 behind? Or do I just let him hang himself my check calling down? or is the call the best possible thing I can do?

T - So the raise was a mistake, calling here is better for my EV for 3/5th pot. Also in easy terms, SPR for TPTK is best with smaller pots, so inflating here is really only catching bluffs, but i give him a perfect spot to shove here by min raising.

Pot: 135 [Ah Qs 5c][8c][Jd]
Hero $200+
Villain 1 $153
R - Lets say there is a river after i call 35. The Jd hits completing the KT, T9 straights. Clubs miss. No matter what hes betting his Nut hand. Should I be calling any bet here? It would probably be anywhere from 50-all in.

All in all, I save $153 due to not check min raising the turn even though I did make the right call in the situation i was in. I shouldn't have been in that situation.
1/2NL As9s Straddle Hand Quote
02-13-2015 , 06:35 PM
Adikar, some of your thoughts, IMHO, are wrong. Here are my comments about your comments above.

PF: Even if there wasn't this maniac at the table, you should still be folding A9s in the SB from a button straddle. You are out of position pre-flop and out of position post flop; this is bad, bad bad! Plus even if you flop and Ace you could be easily dominated by a bigger Ace. IPlayNLHE explained it well. Fold, Fold, and Fold some more.

F: Almost never is it correct to min-raise. Your thinking is way too much fancy play syndrome. You don't need to worry about "help[ing] your flop play". The hand plays itself. As an exercise explain how min raising helps here? Why do we raise a hand? It's one of the following:

1. So weaker hands call (betting for value)
2. So stronger hands fold (bluffing)
3. To charge draws.

That it! You're not playing you versus him; there are still two people in the hand. Based on your reads, the best play (IMHO) is to let him hang himself; you should be calling down. Of course this changes if someone else in the hand.

T: So you realize the check raise was a mistake; good! I don't think you understand SPR here. I don't know what you mean by "SPR for TPTK is best with smaller pots"; that's not correct. We calculate SPR before the flop and take it from there.

We make committment decisions with SPR in mind. It doesn't matter how large the pot is, because SPR is a ratio. First, you don't have TPTK, you have TPWK, but based on your reads, it's essentially the nuts. We can commit to pots with TPTK with SPRs from 2-4 (maybe more) depending on the villain's tendencies. If he's a nit then we need a lower SPR. If he's a manaic, a higher SPR.

"inflating" doesn't really do anything for us. All we want to do is just let this guy keep betting, becasue he's a maniac and he's out to get you. Let him do the betting. By check raising you are not "give[ing] him a perfect spot to shove." All you are doing is giving him the opportunity to fold. You're lucky he didn't fold (because he should of) because all he had was four outs.

So when he shoves the turn there is $235 in the pot ($60 from the flop, his $35, your $70, and the rest of his stack which is $150) and you have $115 to call. You are getting about 2:1. You shouldn't be thinking "So, I happen to call, due to $220 in the pot calling for $110" getting 2:1. You are calling because you know that your range is killing this guy and you should of known you are calling this guy down.

R: So you asked, "Lets say there is a river after i call 35. The Jd hits completing the KT, T9 straights. Clubs miss. No matter what hes betting his Nut hand. Should I be calling any bet here?" If you did just call the 35 then the pot is $130 and the effective stack is $150. Of course we know that big river bets mean more than bets on earlier streets even for a maniac. Based on your reads, I'm not worried about KT or T9. Yes, of course he could have them, but again, based on your reads and your history with the villain I'm still calling if he shoves for $150.
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02-13-2015 , 06:55 PM
Min check-raise a huge mistake for all the reasons explained above. Well played up until that point. Does villain normally talk during his hands? If not, villains talking usually means they're comfortable because they have a strong hand.
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02-13-2015 , 07:36 PM
Anyone else raise big pre here in certain situations? If you have a tight image and the other two limpers have shown they can fold and you go for a ~55 bet. Anyone think that this villain will call with worse and give up paired and dry flops to a c-bet, or even chase draws with incorrect odds? Just saying, heads up A9 isn't bad vs someone w/ a wide range and over 20% of their stack in the pot. Is this strategy too spewy or very thin?
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