Villain 1 - $400 - Older Brown Man. Generally a fairly loose call station gambler. Will bet if he sniffs weakness and will generally bet big. Especially bets big when he has a strong hand on a draw heavy board. Long term loser, but can definitely build a stack when he's running good. Will call raises with 69s.

Villain 2 - $120 - Late 20's Male LAGfish. Long term loser, and good for the game. Plays very wide, and usually just calls, but similar to V1 if he smells weakness he will bluff at it.

Hero - $700+ - MAWG, TAG Image, Have built my stack up a little from initial buy in. Have not shown down a single hand, except an Ace high that checked down all streets and was good.

Hero raises to $10 UTH with AKhh. V1 calls from UTG+1, V2 calls from HJ.

Pot $33

Flop Qc Jc Td

Do you Bet, Check/Call or Check/Raise here? Why?

I bet, especially if I usually c-bet. I want them calling/raising with two pair, draws, etc. If they fold, so be it.

I bet as a standard cbet. My hand is strong and I'm afraid that if I check/raise I give out my hands strength too much here and may lose EV.

Bet $15-20. $15 if you think they'll interpret that as weakness and oblige with a raise. $20 if I think that's too transparent.

If they both call, I'll consider check-raising a blank turn. We aren't going to get V1s stack in there without someone raising on one of the streets. He's gambly, so if we can check-raise the turn, I expect him to call the c/r a lot of dominated hands (KJ, KQ, K10).

Bet $20-25. Checking is terrible. You have to charge the club draws and build a pot where you're an overwhelming favorite. You'll get called by a lot of broadway hands who may not bet. Keep betting on the turn. If a club hits or the board pairs, still bet the turn but fold to a raise.

Pot flop.
Pot turn.
Pot river.

A few things:
First off, someone that will bet big when he smells weakness is not a station.
Second, the station will get his stack in if he has something, that doesn't really matter. As a result we need to make bets that give us a chance at V1s stack.
If we bet $15 - $20 here, that will not happen.

Also, there are a TON of pair+flush draws, two pair, and worse straights in their range. All of which can call big bets. So, we should be betting much larger here for fat value.

The reason that we would not cBet bluff this board is the reason that we should cBetting is for fat value. I would legit bet $30 - $35 here and expect to get called a large % of the time.

Checking can get one extra bet out of a V, but will not let us play for stacks. And when we ck/rs and get called, we are generally only getting actions from hands that would have called big bets anyway (and might have raised ie we bet out).

So pot the flop and pray someone raises.

Yeah, I misplayed this one. I knew that flop very likely hit my opponents' ranges pretty hard, so I was expecting V2 to likely get his stack in, considering he was short but didn't want to discourage him in any way. I checked, V1 bet $25, V2 flatted and I check raised to $95. V1 snap folded, and V2 tank folded showing QT for top and bottom pair.

Looking back it was an obvious spot I should've bet.

@ Iraise... he may not be a pure station, but he does plays pretty stationy against me most of the time as I usually have a high cbet frequency, but I know he also likes to bet when checked to, which was my whole reason for checking here. I felt he would fire, and V2 would likely ship it with his short stack knowing the same thing about V1. Unfortunately it didn't go exactly that way.

To be honest, you need to reevaluate either
A) your own image
B) your views on your villains
C) live tells that you are giving off

Stations do not fold top and bottom for 60bb. And if they, you must be the super nittiest person ever to have played with them. And even then, I'm skeptical.
Or you must have some lol live tell that gives away when you have a strong hand.

Oh and when you ck/rs you pretty much say, I don't care that you bet the flop, and someone else called, and that this is a terrible flop to bluff at, I'm just going to ck/rs you both anyway. Look at me, I dont care that you might have a good hand. I HAVE THE NUTS. So, quick, let me show you before the pot gets too big!

^^^This, no reason for FPS just Bet/bet/shove

Dream spot to bet versus stations. I'd overpot it IMO, this squarely hits their ranges. Plus, WE'VE GOT THE NUTS. Nobody ever expects someone to blast the pot with the nuts.

Edit: saw the results - that's a pretty awful line to take for the reasons you stated.

Honestly while the OP should always look at A-C, the critical information he gave to the fishiest of players was raising from EP, checking a flop, and then check/raising over a bet and a call. Even terrible players can get away with 80% of their stack when they know there is nothing that the hero can be doing this that they can beat.

OP - when you cbet a lot and then instead of cbetting you c/r, you are playing your hand face up to most players. Even bad ones. (Hint: that is what most of them would do.)

Yup. Great observation about stack sizes. We should absolutely pot the flop.

Yeah, it's obviously a complete misplay on my part. I've played with these two players a good amount and we call V2 Drunk Mike for a reason. He normally has a very high barrel rate with close to ATC. They could be improving, and its time for me to adjust. But even so, this is just more evidence that I should be betting that flop 100%.

I know part of the reason I checked was because I was not getting much action last night. Which truthfully I'm not used to. Normally my raises and cbets get quite a bit of action, but last night I was getting folds so often it really blew my mind, and I was completely shocked to see V2 fold top and bottom there. That's really unlike what I've seen from him before. So he's obviously making adjustments.

'Preciate all the feedback.

Pot everything

I was going to comment until I saw this. Your villan evaluation makes no sense what so ever. And I agree with the bet bet bet like, check raise is bad.

grunch.

I bet 25-30 on flop. if V's fold, so be it, but it's likely they got some of this flop. You're hoping to get all-in and making a PSB is the easiest way to get there without completely giving away your hand strength. it will look like a standard c-bet to V's.

Also, given the board texture, its quite possible this flop hit at least one of the V's hard.

You did comment, and I appreciate it. I've reached the conclusion that it was a poorly played hand overall. If you could offer any further insight on HOW I can adjust my thinking to be more correct I would be very grateful.

Don't want to steal Mr. Doomed's thunder, but an easy way to adjust and show immediate results is to value-bet more and bluff less. You flopped the nuts on a wet board that almost always hits a villains' range - bet for value.

you bet, because browny will call if he has a piece of it, and the you can check a later street to induce bluffs; v2 is also more likely to call with a hand you're crushing; i recommend maybe check/call c/minriase ott if you feel like they're both sitting on like lower value hands, DO NOTPOT OTF OTT OTR = its stupid because you isolate the range they're willing to pay you off with. i guess it would depend on your cbet rate, but it seems to be pretty high-- i'd cbet here and just check turn to c/minraise smaller sized bets to get calls from both, c/r large against bets 3/4 pot size to potsized bets, and bet river = essentially these players are players that will only bet with worse, and call; my impressions of your 2 guys seem inaccurate: to me the brown guy seems like hes a stubborn donkey fish, whereas the 2nd guy seems to just be a noob. to keep the noob in the hand imo you should let the brown guy bet and let the noob call. if it's big enough so that the you think the noob folds, forget the noob and just get it in.

you bet here because they call.

Bet $20 on flop and bet 3bet over a raise. Bet $30 or $35 if they're really loose. I hate check raising because it screams you have a set or straight and may get hands like Q9, KQ, AJ etc to fold. Also you risk getting it checked through.

Betting is optimal because it gets value, gives them a chance to raise if they like their hand enough, doesn't give away too much like check raising, etc.

This is EXACTLY why check raising is terrible (besides other reasons). You make it look like you have QQ, JJ, TT or AK and get two pairs to fold. Had you lead flop, there's no way V2 doesn't shove over the top of your bet. Also V1 could have easily folded a hand like KQ.

90+% of the time, it is best to just bet bet bet with monster hands rather than CRing, esp as the PFR. In fact, against 3+ people, it is usually bet to donk bet flop with a set. CRing looks too strong.

grunch: bet big

not even a close call. you have current nuts on an extremely draw-y board against multiple villains who you deem as calling station. pot every street (maybe slow down if that third club comes and you think it a chaser hit it... but make them pay to get there)