V ($1115): 50s-60s Indian male, super loose-passive pre-flop, having seen him limp/call AK and 99 earlier. Has run up his stack by making nut flushes and getting shoved on or having people station his raises, which have been fairly large with his nutty hands. Seems to make min-raises on the flop with marginal hands, having done it with A3o facing a c-bet on AT6ddx after l/c pre, and also with A8cc on K72ccx. Can be station-y post-flop for small bets, as he called a 1/2 PSB OTT of $30 on J922r with Q5s earlier and then checked behind a blank river. Seems like his bet/raise sizing is proportional to his perceived hand strength.

Hero (Covers): 20s Indian male, winning image, having built my stack with two sets against stations who had TP, and KK v JJ AIPF. Also viewed as tight, but honestly I don't think V is really paying much attention.

General table dynamic:

1/2 NL underground game, $400 max buy, 7 handed.

Lots of limp-calling pre-flop from most players, only myself and another TAG are the only people really raising with any sort of frequency pre-flop. The only 3-bets which have been seen so far are shoves from short stacks or a maniac who has since left the table. Pre-flop raise sizes have varied from $5 to $20.


Onto the hand:

One limp to V in MP who raises to $10, two calls, hero 3-bets to $75 with AA from SB, folded to V who thinks for a while, seems to be considering a 4-bet but maybe not, then calls. Everyone else folds.

Flop ($175): 767

Hero bets $125, V raises after a few second thought to $300, hero calls.

Turn ($775): Q

Hero checks, V instantly announces all-in for $740, hero?



Fairly sure Vs range OTT is either QQ exactly, or QQ-KK, but not sure how much KK is in there given he didn't 4B pre-flop, and the fact that he insta-shoved. Is there any spazzing TT-JJ in his range here either?

Also wondering whether or not I should have 3B shoved flop since I pretty much always have the best hand here. The reason I called was because in my experience players who are ordinarily quite stationy can find ridiculous hero folds when the money gets beyond their comfort level, but I figured I would pretty much always get his stack in on turns which aren't Q-A anyway without him hero folding.

Actually, after re-reading this myself, I'm fairly sure that if someone else posted this hand my response would be '3B flop, as played snap call turn'.

Let's presume that Villain has KK, QQ or AA 100% of the time

QQ: 3 combos (42 to 2 dog)
AA: 1 combo (chop)
KK: 6 combos (42 to 2 favorite)

Overall you have 63.6% equity in this hand.

I know you are discounting AA and KK because he didn't 4bet pre. Let's say we discount them 50%. We end up with exactly 50% equity (QQ is 50% discounted because of the Q on the turn). Since there is $750 in dead money in the pot and you are getting two to one on a call, you'd call if this is your read.

I do think you will occasionally see:
7X (particularly A7s, 87s and 76s)
66
98s

He might have been thinking long and hard pre-flop about whether or not he had the correct odds to draw and get paid off when he hits the flop.

As you said he also could have JJ, TT, 99, 88 and were overpairs to the flop and put you on AK so that Q didn't scare him.

Creative villains tend to always put you on AK when you 3-bet pre and then either try to move you off AK when you appear to miss (and they miss as well) or play their pair strong when they have a pair and no A or K flops.

But my read would actually be that he has a 7, 66 or 98s.

Unfortunately it's hard for pocket Aces to improve and easier for other hands to improve so the Aces often win small pots and lose big ones and are a tough hand to play with 500BB in your stack.

I think I might cib otf. This Villain is never folding QQ/KK to that; might as well get some more value while we know we have his entire range crushed. It also makes it way easier for him to call a small (~1/2 pot) turn shove.

As played, I'm sorta throwing up a little. It looks like your read is that he's NEVER raising anything like 66/A7s/87s pre and not ever showing up with junk & spazzing here, so we're pretty much looking at QQ-AA, and I agree with discounting KK/AA substantially. All 3 combos of QQ are certainly in his range, and what, maybe 1-2 of KK? If there's 1 KK combo, we're 27%, and if there are 2, we're 41%. So, super read-dependent.

I don't like th 75 pre, it is like announcing to v loudly that u have a big overpair
And once he know that, he'll definitely shove allin for value with his nutted hand because it's too hard for u to fold ur overpair on such flop. I would fold here without read. But if ur read on him pre was correct, then we should call. We have a lot equity with aces

Well, you can probably narrow his range to like TT+ given pre-flop and your read.

Really probably QQ+.

I don't think he ever has a 7. Or a draw.

Yeah, I'd put in a small 3-bet on the flop and never fold.

As played, meh, you have to call.

If his range is QQ-AA, you beat 6 combos, lose to 3, and tie 1.

Getting 2:1, it's a clear call.

Not 3betting large pre against this Villain would be criminal. We can get him to call and stack off behind with all or most of his range on a lot of boards. A smaller 3b is also going to start a chain of calls after Villain calls, making us play our hand OOP multiway, which sucks unless the other opponents are short or total spew-monkeys postflop.

Against a good Villain, there are definitely reasonable arguments in favor of all sorts of 3b ranges (including none at all) when OOP super deep. Against this V though, the huge difference in skill + huge equity of our hand against his range trumps his positional advantage.

I would've 3bet flop AI. If he did have the QQ, probably would've folded and you're still profiting substantially with AA.

What was he holding??

You want him to fold QQ on the flop?

You're getting great odds to call, sure, but listen to your own reads on the villain. He is super passive, has a stack from people stationing him and bets according to hand strength. This is not dependent on odds but the accuracy of your reads. Given a reasonable hand range this is a call, given your reads this is a fold.

I also don't think any 7 (even 66 & 77) will call our very huge 3bet. I'm not worried at all OTF, actually i will be happy to see that board, i can extract a lot of value vs TT-KK here.

why did you flat his flop raise? by doing that we are basically under repping our hand, maybe the reason he jammed turn.

ap, i will call because of the action OTF (he might think we have AK, TT, JJ) and due to pot odds. If he has QQ, ill getup and smoke out this cooler.

Grunch.

Against a range of AA-QQ, you should call in this spot me thinks. Add in some small % spaz pushes it closer to calling. I would also probably just jam the flop. The described player likely won't fold any over pair that he decided to raise with.

Oh, there's a typo in OP, the flop is 787, not 767. Don't think this really affects anything though.

I think he flats the flop with a 7 or 66. (standard line for 1/2 players *trap mentality)

Unless you have a soulread it's a call.

Underground game with a 50 year old Indian grandpa sounds like the nuts!

I don't see how we are folding here but sounds like V has exactly QQ

Spot is pretty disgusting his range is probably weighted towards 1010/JJ/QQ due to not 4-betting pre which he always would with his KK/AA.

If you've already got him labelled as a guy whose calling any bet pre which makes sense as to why you'd make it $75 there, then I don't see why you can't cram flop vs said villain and that would also mean that you don't have to get in a weird spot if the turn bricks, you check to induce a shove and he checks back to you allowing him a potentially free card if he decided to play a hand like 98/56 that way, but flatting and letting him hand himself especially if you've got a solid read that he is more likely to have an overpair here due to his potential 4-bet pre is fine and I'd probably take that line vs your read on villain.

On turn it also matter whether you'd think he'd slow down with 1010/JJ on the Q turn or not. Did you see/have any HH with him where he'd bet top pair on the flop then check if a scary looking overcard on the turn? That info may be useful here. If you think he was basically gonna cram any turn that wasn't an ace then I guess you have to call given the price even though it's a pretty sick spot.

What did you do OP?

Results:


Thought process:

Also, additional question:

If V had asked for chip racks two hands prior, does this affect our ranging at all?