Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. 1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway.

03-10-2011 , 07:01 PM
1/2NL 9 handed.

Hero has 99 in MP. $325.

Preflop: fold, call, Hero raises to $9, fold, call, call, button calls, SB calls, fold, call.

Flop(6 players/$56-rake): 864.
SB checks, EP bets all-in $42, Hero...

EP is a one buy-in fish that does not buy-in full. It is getting late. He likes to play low buy-in tournaments and I hear he is spazzy with draws in the tourneys. My take on his wager is that he could make this play with a wide range of hands.

Players to act after me include two competent players. These guys have a tight image of me and know that I vary my preflop raises. They are likely putting me on a made hand if I do not fold this flop. Stacks $200 and $450.

Button is not a good player. Probably the type to stack off with a lone A since he has about $95.

SB covers with around $600 but is in lockdown mode. He is overly passive postflop and will likely fold any marginal hands. He would check a made hand here to see what develops so my radar is focusing on him a bit.

Thoughts please before I give mine/continue with the action. What kind of equity do I have here? How robust do you think my hand is against the EP player?

Last edited by TripleH68; 03-10-2011 at 07:24 PM.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-10-2011 , 07:13 PM
What was the purpose of the preflop raise? Was it just to juice the pot? I'm not really a fan of that play if there are smallish type stacks at the table cuz getting them to stack off will be easy if we hit (i.e. it ain't needed); if everyone is bigstacked, ok maybe? If the purpose was to isolate the limper and get it HU or 3way at worse then obviously this doesn't seem like the type of table where a $9 raise is going to do that, so I'd either raise much larger (but we might be in too early a position to do that) - or I'd just limp.

6way pot with meh overpair and meh heart draw, plus still 3 others to act behind us = SB. Someone with overcards /w flush draw is actually ahead of us on this flop. I don't think this is the pot where we want lottsa money going in. I let it go.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-10-2011 , 08:58 PM
Preflop: With your reads on the players behind you, a raise seems fine, but I would go a little bit larger. There's something about <$10 preflop raises after a limper that makes low stakes players treat it like a limp. $9 isn't necessarily a mistake, though.

Flop: Just call. A raise gets you in big trouble if one of your opponents has a real hand behind you. Your smart opponents won't fold a set to your raise because your most likely hand is an overpair and you would have just called with an A high flush. You're also not going to get bluffed if you call because the side pot is empty. A raise doesn't really protect your hand either because your tight opponents aren't calling with a heart other than the A and maybe the K if you call, and the fish is calling with a wide range no matter what you do.

Just my opinion...
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-10-2011 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyline
Preflop: With your reads on the players behind you, a raise seems fine, but I would go a little bit larger. There's something about <$10 preflop raises after a limper that makes low stakes players treat it like a limp. $9 isn't necessarily a mistake, though.

Flop: Just call. A raise gets you in big trouble if one of your opponents has a real hand behind you. Your smart opponents won't fold a set to your raise because your most likely hand is an overpair and you would have just called with an A high flush. You're also not going to get bluffed if you call because the side pot is empty. A raise doesn't really protect your hand either because your tight opponents aren't calling with a heart other than the A and maybe the K if you call, and the fish is calling with a wide range no matter what you do.

Just my opinion...
All this.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
What was the purpose of the preflop raise? Was it just to juice the pot? I'm not really a fan of that play if there are smallish type stacks at the table cuz getting them to stack off will be easy if we hit (i.e. it ain't needed); if everyone is bigstacked, ok maybe? If the purpose was to isolate the limper and get it HU or 3way at worse then obviously this doesn't seem like the type of table where a $9 raise is going to do that, so I'd either raise much larger (but we might be in too early a position to do that) - or I'd just limp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyline
Preflop: With your reads on the players behind you, a raise seems fine, but I would go a little bit larger. There's something about <$10 preflop raises after a limper that makes low stakes players treat it like a limp. $9 isn't necessarily a mistake, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
All this.
Just to address preflop, here was my thinking:

My image is tight. As such I rarely get 3-bet in this game no matter the amount of the raise or position. I wanted to set this hand up for a big pot. I don't want to raise to $14 and get one caller in late position(who is a good player) and the limper.

That part of my plan worked because the better players called in late position. Then the weaker players called likely because of "pot odds" on the button and in the blinds. Now I get a 6-way pot with some money to play for...

Of course my plan of "set or no bet" changed a little when the original limper bet into me...

Last edited by TripleH68; 03-10-2011 at 11:12 PM.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyline
Preflop: With your reads on the players behind you, a raise seems fine, but I would go a little bit larger. There's something about <$10 preflop raises after a limper that makes low stakes players treat it like a limp. $9 isn't necessarily a mistake, though.

Flop: Just call. A raise gets you in big trouble if one of your opponents has a real hand behind you. Your smart opponents won't fold a set to your raise because your most likely hand is an overpair and you would have just called with an A high flush. You're also not going to get bluffed if you call because the side pot is empty. A raise doesn't really protect your hand either because your tight opponents aren't calling with a heart other than the A and maybe the K if you call, and the fish is calling with a wide range no matter what you do.

Just my opinion...
+2

I would also watch to my left to see if there are any engagement tells, or anything else that would devalue my hand enough to fold, but would probably call anyway.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 01:18 AM
12-13 preflop I go to 100 otf
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 04:27 AM
I understand your thinking preflop, but I personally would either limp or make it 13+ pre.

You said the donkbetter is probably a fish so I would raise it to 100, as his range is any 8 with a redraw heart, or an A of Hearts... You are ahead of most of his range, and making a raise can make any competent player fold everything but a flush, set or straight IMO. I think you can get a few better hands to fold like 1010 or JJ from a competent player too.

If anyone else calls on the flop I would definitly put on the breaks, re-evaluate the turn and situation because you are not totally pot committed.

I hate this spot alot but you can still get a few better hands to fold given your line and it sucks with just a pair of nines.

I've always been an advocate of limping with 9's in EP and MP, but raising is ok pre.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 04:30 AM
I feel like calling and folding have merit too, but I think you need to take a stand here as this is a good flop for your hand.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleH68
Just to address preflop, here was my thinking:

My image is tight. As such I rarely get 3-bet in this game no matter the amount of the raise or position. I wanted to set this hand up for a big pot. I don't want to raise to $14 and get one caller in late position(who is a good player) and the limper.

That part of my plan worked because the better players called in late position. Then the weaker players called likely because of "pot odds" on the button and in the blinds. Now I get a 6-way pot with some money to play for...

Of course my plan of "set or no bet" changed a little when the original limper bet into me...
Why do you want a big pot with 5 players holding pocket 9s OOP against a good player?

Last edited by asg82; 03-11-2011 at 11:15 AM.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 11:20 AM
6-way I think this is a fold.

Oh and btw, I think raising to $9 with 99 turns your hand face up
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 11:38 AM
I'd call here. The only danger is someone else flopped a bit hand and will raise us off the hand. I'm not too worried about the shortstack shoving, this could be the lone A or K, or something like A8. Someone else may have flopped a set or flush, or semibluff w/ the AX. Still, your pot odds are so good I'd just call and fold to a shove.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
6-way I think this is a fold.

Oh and btw, I think raising to $9 with 99 turns your hand face up


I was going to raise to $8, then made it $9 to be a smart ass.

This amount makes the pot look really big if most players put in one red and four whites.

And why do I want a six-handed pot with 99? Because I like money.

Again would I rather limp and fold when it comes back to me for $17?
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleH68
1/2NL 9 handed.

Hero has 99 in MP. $325.

Preflop: fold, call, Hero raises to $9, fold, call, call, button calls, SB calls, fold, call.

Flop(6 players/$56-rake): 864.
SB checks, EP bets all-in $42, Hero...

EP is a one buy-in fish that does not buy-in full. It is getting late. He likes to play low buy-in tournaments and I hear he is spazzy with draws in the tourneys. My take on his wager is that he could make this play with a wide range of hands.

Players to act after me include two competent players. These guys have a tight image of me and know that I vary my preflop raises. They are likely putting me on a made hand if I do not fold this flop. Stacks $200 and $450.

Button is not a good player. Probably the type to stack off with a lone A since he has about $95.

SB covers with around $600 but is in lockdown mode. He is overly passive postflop and will likely fold any marginal hands. He would check a made hand here to see what develops so my radar is focusing on him a bit.

Thoughts please before I give mine/continue with the action. What kind of equity do I have here? How robust do you think my hand is against the EP player?
So I was thinking "set or no bet" when this monotone flop comes along. Given my read on EP I know I am calling if we are heads up. My 9 may even be good against him if a flush comes. He is the kind of fish that could hold anything here - so I turn my attention to the rest of the table.

-I can narrow the range of the better players because I raised preflop. This makes two pair less likely because it would have to be a suited one gapper.
-I refuse to be afraid of sets.
-The two players who notice my tight image are on my left and could start a wave of folding/even comment on getting out of my way.
-If I call I am giving better than 3:1 immediate odds.
-I can see 5 cards and there are 16 out, that leaves 31 unseen. So there is a 65% chance the A is buried.

So I raised to $90 all day - knowing the button is the most likely player to call with a one card flush. And SB is in big time fit or fold mode.

If everyone folds I like better than 2:1 vs EP. If someone call or raises, well we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Thoughts?
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 01:31 PM
Ok so what happened next?
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 02:29 PM
It folded around...one of the players called my hand as AxAheart. :/

EP showed 8x7. Turn 9. River 7.

So the play worked this time. But is it a good play?
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 04:21 PM
I dunno, I think we've just committed 50 BB with a very mediocre hand and it happened to work out this time. We juiced the pot preflop in order to get paid off big when we hit big; in a 6way pot, even though we have an overpair, I don't think this is the flop we were looking for in order to get in a large chunk of our chips (i.e. small hand, small pot, big hand, big pot; I think this is kinda a small hand here). I could be wrong.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 04:22 PM
Ask yourself what do I gain by raising to $90? Is the A going to fold for $90? And what is your play if somebody reraises me?

You could flat the flop and if a doesn't come on the turn then bet big, or if a does come then you could shutdown.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I dunno, I think we've just committed 50 BB with a very mediocre hand and it happened to work out this time. We juiced the pot preflop in order to get paid off big when we hit big; in a 6way pot, even though we have an overpair, I don't think this is the flop we were looking for in order to get in a large chunk of our chips (i.e. small hand, small pot, big hand, big pot; I think this is kinda a small hand here). I could be wrong.
We're actually in better shape against EP's range than you think. Even if he has us beat, with like bottom two pair or 1010, we have outs to a flush. In fact, if his hand was faceup AA we should call to draw to the flush.

So we are way ahead of some of his range, 50% vs most of it probably, and drawing almost dead against a tiny % of his range. Overall, we're probably like 50% equity against him and we're getting much better odds than that.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote
03-11-2011 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleH68
It folded around...one of the players called my hand as AxAheart. :/

EP showed 8x7. Turn 9. River 7.

So the play worked this time. But is it a good play?
I think its better to just call. Again, it's a kinda marginal situation where I feel calling just slightly is better than folding. You are probably 50%, I wouldn't raise. It's true someone w/ AX may fold to a raise but not a smooth call, but I wouldn't worry about that hand bluff raising you OTF. That would probably just call. And KX may fold flop, putting you or EP on AX.
1/2NL:  99 red.  Flop decision multiway. Quote

      
m