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<img /2 - weird spot flopping set <img /2 - weird spot flopping set

03-16-2014 , 03:21 AM
Hero - generally seen as a TAG player, although at this level most don't know what that even means. Previously won AQ flopped boat and frequently shows down winning hands.

Vill - new to table, dressed in clean clothes and clean haircut. Seems to play quite aggressive raising frequently pre flop.

This is a weird spot and want to get take on how others see this hand.

    Full Tilt, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #24901611

    MP2: $80 (40 bb)
    MP3: $80 (40 bb)
    CO: $80 (40 bb)
    BTN: $202 (101 bb)
    SB: $80 (40 bb)
    BB: $80 (40 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $330 (165 bb)
    UTG+1: $80 (40 bb)
    MP1: $80 (40 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8 8
    Hero calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $2, 3 folds, BTN calls $2, SB completes, BB checks

    Flop: ($10) 8 9 2 (5 players)
    SB bets $9, BB folds, Hero raises to $20, MP1 folds, BTN calls $20, SB folds

    Turn: ($59) 5 (2 players)
    Hero bets $30, BTN raises to $90, Hero raises to $180, BTN calls $90 and is all-in

    River: ($419) K (2 players, 1 is all-in)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

    Last edited by BigSlick2006; 03-16-2014 at 03:37 AM.
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 03:32 AM
    Prefer raise pre.

    Raise flop bigger.

    Turn is good.
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    03-16-2014 , 03:36 AM
    Correction was UTG not UTG+1 not sure why it did that.
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 05:04 AM
    Grunch:

    Only looked at replayer - and when V reraised, my first thought was - "he's representing 7,6."
    What else would call pre-flop on an 8,9,2 board - and then reraise on a 5 turn?
    A flush draw would continue to call - and not cause himself to pay more for his flush draw. A JT would also not reraise.
    It's highly unlikely V is playing 85, 95, 92 or 25.
    The only hand that we beat is 89... that that's unlikely because we have most of the 8s.
    There's nothing weird about this hand.
    It's either fold on turn.
    Or b/c turn. And c/f river if we don't improve.
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 02:00 PM
    Do we give him credit for 67 and severely over paying?
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    03-16-2014 , 02:42 PM
    Also how would the view change if we 3! to around $30 OTF v calls, OTT we bet and Vill 3!?
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 04:35 PM
    BigSlick
    I've always seen poker as a conversation with chips.
    When you're betting, you're saying "I've got the best hand."
    When someone calls, they're saying, "Prove it."
    When someone reraises, they're saying, "No, I'VE got the best hand."

    When you're betting for value, you're also getting information.
    Since poker is a game of imperfect information - you've got to always pay attention to your opponents to gain clues as to what they might be holding.

    In this example, you chose to ignore V's announcement that he thought he had a better hand. Had you played your hand less straight-forward, I would have been inclined to think he didn't know you were so strong. But I think he did.

    In our 1/2 games, good players rarely bluff someone who's showing strength and can bust them... because they realize they have no FE.

    Since you gave no description of V, I have to assume that he's semi-competent and knows what he's doing. In your hand - I made a couple assumptions that made me come to my conclusion.
    1. You re-raised on the flop showing super strength. And V did not 3! you. Yet he called your $20 reraise after having only invested $2 preflop. Why would someone do that? Therefore, on the flop - he was chasing something.
    2. On the turn, you bet out showing continued strength - but this time, V re-raised you for more than 1/2 his remaining stack. So he's saying - "that 5 helped me and NOW my hand is best." Would he have done this with 55? 95? 85? 25? Highly unlikely. So now lets look at the draws... only 76 fits.
    His turn raise is so strong - unless he's Phil Ivey - I doubt he's bluffing.
    There will be others that say that he could be doing this with TT+, but I don't think he would have waited for the turn to make a move. And I don't think he would have limped on the button with TT+... folks love to raise on the button and look for any excuse that allows them to do so.
    The only other hand I could see him doing the turn re-raise with is 99... but again, I feel he would have done that on the flop - and then, getting it all in would have been standard.

    I think your 3! on the flop is fine.
    Your 1/2 pot turn bet is a little on the weak side - but still shows you're committed to the hand.
    Overall - you were doing the right things - but you failed to listen to what V was telling you on the turn. IMO, I'm folding the turn.

    Played over 100 times where V is only bluffing 10% of the times - I show a profit for folding in this spot.
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 05:49 PM
    I would raise bigger on flop, a bit bigger on turn. I think you need to call turn and check fold river since he is heavily repping 67. Once he jam river I think he has it almost every time. He might have another set but he would have reraised you on flop.
    It's really weird that he would call with an OESD having only invested 20$ but if he think the other vilain will call your raise, I think it's not bad this deep.

    So overall:
    Raise pre
    Bigger raise on flop, on turn, call turn
    c/f river uninproved

    PS: didnt look at the results as of this post.
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    03-16-2014 , 06:01 PM
    raise more flop I think it is hard to say where you're at on the turn without better description of villain; in my experience there are a lot of bad players at his level. Given your raise on the flop he is probably discounting a draw from your range and therefore could do this with an overpair, maybe he slow played kk or something ridiculous like that. At 1/2 live i'm getting it in on the turn as you did.
    <img /2 - weird spot flopping set Quote
    03-16-2014 , 06:33 PM
    Thanks for the replies so far. I am leaning more towards a higher raise OTF (maybe a pre flop raise although UTG might not be the best), bet-call OTT, shipping paired board and folding non-paired board OTR. Probably no way he gets away from a straight OTR.

    Here is the spoil:
    Spoiler:
    Results: $419 pot
    Final Board: 8 9 2 5 K
    BTN showed 6 7 and won $449 ($247 net)
    Hero showed 8 8 and lost (-$202 net)
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