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1/2 vs maniac deep stack 1/2 vs maniac deep stack

03-16-2015 , 11:13 AM
Home game. Starts with 200 buyin and after first hours you can buyin for biggest stack.

Hero - tag $900 - bought in for $600.
Villan - bookie, maniac that plays any two cards aggressively. Bought in for $2,000.

Villan has been in the game for 7-8 hands. Showed 86, 97, j8, q6.

He called an allin with Q6 on flop J23 to hit runner runner straight. He raise to $18 pre, player reraise to 50, villan called. Allin on flop for 120 and he calls.

My hand - villan raises to $18 in first position.
Everyone folds to me in late position.
I have As10h and call. Here I should have raised or folded in my mind.

Everyone folds. Pot $39.
Flop Ac9c6s

He bets 40, I call. My thought is that I'm letting him bet and get paid. I think I should have raised here.

Turn Js
He bets 60, I call.

River 2h
He bets 200. I think about it and just call. Honestly I'm worried he could have J2 and beat me!

I think I miss played thus hand on every street! Help me out.
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03-16-2015 , 11:23 AM
Lol you put him on J2? Fold pre or raise flop- more often than not you're value owning yourself with A10o
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03-16-2015 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbycoconuts
Lol you put him on J2? Fold pre or raise flop- more often than not you're value owning yourself with A10o
You have to be joking. He's value owning himself against this villain with A10?
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03-16-2015 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbycoconuts
Lol you put him on J2? Fold pre or raise flop- more often than not you're value owning yourself with A10o
fold pre? really?
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03-16-2015 , 01:03 PM
What are you going to accomplish by raising? You won't know where you are no matter what he does because he's a maniac. The only hands he will ever fold in this hand have 0% equity against you, and you'll be bloating the pot with a one pair hand. If he shoves, which he isn't opposed to doing then you almost have to call off your whole stack with TPWK. I'd play it the same and if he hits two pair tell him good hand and reach into your wallet for $2k.
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03-16-2015 , 01:09 PM
I like the hand as played.

We are way ahead of his range pre flop.

There can almost be a case for raising somewhere here given the way that he played his Q6 hand. But I think folding here at pretty much any point is completely out of the question.

I would ony raise pre flop if I felt that he would continue with his same weak range for 3 streets. Otherwise I'm pretty happy playing his hand for top pair value on a lot (most?) runs outs. And there are some boards that I'm willing to play this hand for Ace high value for 1 - 2 streets.
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03-16-2015 , 01:09 PM
I like a 3b pre.

As played I would call flop, raise turn, tough decision on river depending on bet size and read.

Without a raise on any street I don't think you can fold river. Don't feel great about it though.
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03-16-2015 , 01:14 PM
If you aren't comfortable playing oop with a marginal hand vs a maniac it's totally fine to fold pre. I don't think 3 betting accomplishes much, we balloon the pot with an easily dominated hand oop. I think stationing this guy to the river is the only real line in this spot, which is way folding is ok.

I'd prefer to start 3 betting him in position wih a wide vakue range oop, we should just be doing it with value hands.
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03-16-2015 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver
What are you going to accomplish by raising? You won't know where you are no matter what he does because he's a maniac. The only hands he will ever fold in this hand have 0% equity against you, and you'll be bloating the pot with a one pair hand. If he shoves, which he isn't opposed to doing then you almost have to call off your whole stack with TPWK. I'd play it the same and if he hits two pair tell him good hand and reach into your wallet for $2k.
I think you accomplish a lot by raising. He's already proven that he'll call raises with as little as a back door draw. Weak draws often improve, so you can anticipate that loose calls on earlier streets will lead to loose calls on later streets. In a nutshell, raise for value.

AT is way ahead of his range pre and I doubt the A otf scares him enough to fold if he has PP or any piece of that board.
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03-16-2015 , 01:17 PM
"More often then not"
Why are you calling A10o pre just to flat 3 streets against a maniac? These are the exact scenarios were leaky regs spew then tank muck for 5 minutes and whine when V turns over A2.
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03-16-2015 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed
If you aren't comfortable playing oop with a marginal hand vs a maniac it's totally fine to fold pre. I don't think 3 betting accomplishes much, we balloon the pot with an easily dominated hand oop. I think stationing this guy to the river is the only real line in this spot, which is way folding is ok.

I'd prefer to start 3 betting him in position wih a wide vakue range oop, we should just be doing it with value hands.
Um he's not OOP.
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03-16-2015 , 01:29 PM
I actually think against this specific villain that the hand is played fine. This is one of the few spots that I think you can slow play a hand as weak as this and feel fine getting it in. Sorry you took some gross beat, but don't be results oriented. This guy is here to bluff his chips off. Just because he got there against you doesn't mean you misplayed this hand.
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03-16-2015 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbycoconuts
Um he's not OOP.
Well then I don't mind a small 3 bet and that makes folding pre not really an option. For some reason I thought hero was in the blinds. Bluff catching this Villan in position just makes the hand so much easier to play.
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03-16-2015 , 02:09 PM
Against described V, I think it's fine as long as you called river.
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03-16-2015 , 02:16 PM
Given the hand you've seen where he called all-in on the flop with Q-high there's probably a lot more value in 3betting pre and betting every street.

As played calling down is probably still +ev
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03-16-2015 , 02:21 PM
The "hero" in the Q6 hand had only $170. Our Hero has $900, so I'm sure V will play a little more cautiously, but you never know. I've taken a $2,000+ pot off a maniac w/ AA on a KK7ss board that he shoved on. I 3bet to $100 pre and he called (1/2 game). He never showed.
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03-16-2015 , 02:22 PM
I'm fine with any of the choices pre, although I think 3-betting for value is optimal based on the Q6 hand. It also gives us control of the flop action.

Flop is fine as played. His turn bet is pretty weak so I'd probably raise him there for value but a call is ok.

The river is interesting because his bet sizing went from $40 on the flop to $60 on the turn to $200 on the river. So if he is betting for value and has any clue about hand strength then we are crushed on the river (ie either the river changed something or he was slow playing a monster).

So our decision should be based on how spewy we think villain is. A lot of this would come down to "feel" so it's hard to say in a post but I will say that in your examples to this point he has been aggressive pre but what about postflop? The Q6 hand he played passively (calling 3bet pre, calling postflop with air). My initial thought was we'll just call this guy down for 3 streets but based on bet sizing $200 into a pot of $240 (without more info indicating he is a spew monkey) do I think we are good over 30% of the time here? No, I really don't.
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03-16-2015 , 02:36 PM
If you aren't comfortable calling three psbs with a ten kicker against this villain [I don't know why you wouldn't] then fold it pf.
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03-16-2015 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoneyWalking
If you aren't comfortable calling three psbs with a ten kicker against this villain [I don't know why you wouldn't] then fold it pf.
Villain didn't make 3 pot sized bets. I think that is pretty relevant (when ranging him). DUCY?
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03-16-2015 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
The "hero" in the Q6 hand had only $170. Our Hero has $900, so I'm sure V will play a little more cautiously, but you never know. I've taken a $2,000+ pot off a maniac w/ AA on a KK7ss board that he shoved on. I 3bet to $100 pre and he called (1/2 game). He never showed.
True, but he's probably still making the preflop call regardless of stack depth. And if he's calling $50 with a hand such as Q6 he's not folding to one bet if he hits the flop.
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03-16-2015 , 02:46 PM
Three-betting A-10o against this player is horrible without a plan. If you can't answer the question, "What am I going to do if he 4-bets?" then don't 3-bet.

I think you played it fine. I would have played it the same.
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03-16-2015 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
Three-betting A-10o against this player is horrible without a plan. If you can't answer the question, "What am I going to do if he 4-bets?" then don't 3-bet.

I think you played it fine. I would have played it the same.
3betting AT vs a guy that will flat 3bets pre with Q6 is fine. The plan is pretty simple vs this player: fold if he 4bets.
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03-16-2015 , 02:57 PM
Spoil alert:
Spoiler:

I called his $200 river bet and my thought was that he was weak and was trying to buy the pot.

He shows two pair AJ. IMO he lost a ton of value against me as I think I might have paid him off.

I left about an hour later and that was the only "strong" hand he showed all night.

He literally showed his cards every time he won a pot and his range included any two cards.

We didn't play any other hands together but look forward to next game.

I supposed that against him it's ok to play my strong/made hands aggressively.

Last edited by iraisetoomuch; 03-16-2015 at 07:06 PM.
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03-16-2015 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
Villain didn't make 3 pot sized bets. I think that is pretty relevant (when ranging him). DUCY?
Never said he did. But OP didn't tell us if his bet sizes signal his hand strength or not anyway.
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03-16-2015 , 04:08 PM
Call call call call

Hell I'd call with MPGK+ on this board run out.

Please tell me you didn't fold.
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