1/2 active and loose table

V ($400) Young white male, obv a reg at this casino, chatting to his friends at the same table and having a good time. Very active, raises a lot pref IP, and takes stabs whenever he sees fit. Haven't shown down anything since Hero sat down.

H ($230) Young girl in office lady attire, just table changed to V's table (< 2 orbits). Only two hands played so far are:

Hand 1: UTG opens to 11, three callers including V in HJ, and H calls otb with 9Ts. Flop $46 KJTr. Checked to V and he bets 25. MP calls, H calls. Turn $121 Jo, everyone checked. River $121 J, everyone checked. H wins with 9T (didn't get to see V's cards - was waiting for V to show but he was very reluctant and taking forever. Didn't want to slow-roll, so H showed a T and V mucked).

Hand 2: 3 limpers to H in HJ with AJo. H raises to 13, btn calls, and all 3 limpers call (later I learned typical raise on this table is 15-20). Flop $57 589r, EP donks 50, NTA calls, H folds.

On to the hand:

H straddles UTG to 4, two callers to V on the BB and he 3b to 20. H calls with TT, LP calls.

Flop ($70) J94
V leads 38, H calls, LP folds.

Turn ($146) 6
V checks, H bets 75, V thinks for a bit then calls.

River ($296) 2
V insta shoves, putting H all-in for 90ish more. H ??!!

My thoughts:

When V 3b pref his range is wide, likely more air than quality hand, so I opt to just call and keep him in (4b is definitely an option). His cbet is smallish, combined with the fact that he c/c my smallish bet ott, it's hard to put him on strong hands that would shove the river (JJ+, 99, 44, J9). He may have SD and/or FD but all the draws miss otr (plus there's a good chance he'd lead turn or c/r me ott with good draws). What hand could he play weakish otf and ott then shove the river unimproved? Could the 2 have helped his hand? I am having a hard time figuring this out... I can only think of 9x that made two pair otr (92). Or baby flush draw that turned two pair/straight (42, 62, 53). That's such narrow range though.

On the other hand really don't think he is bluffing here - The river is the least scary card in the deck and he should know his hand doesn't look strong. Plus I'm new to the table and I haven't shown the ability to fold yet, and he shouldn't expect me to fold in a 300 pot with 90 behind. Also when he shoved I stared at him, he crossed his arms, sat back a little bit, appearing indifferent. I said to myself 'dang that looks like the nuts', but question is what nuts???

Probably has q10dd or k10dd or some ak aqs all of which you beat even some busted straights you are getting 3:1 to call I would call if he had AJ or a set oh well still can't fold to just one over and no straight or flush possibilities

Id probably fold here. I think him calling the $75 on turn he always has Jx or some stupid 2 pair. If he had Q10dd or K10dd why wouldn't he continue on this turn or c/r AI. If he is competent he would realize the insane price he is laying you and would figure you're likely never folding imo. If he's bad or you think he's not thinking on that level of probably call.

This seems like a perfect hand and spot to raise pre if you're going to straddle in the first place imo, why not ISO him in position here

Puke call and expect to be good like never.

Your line looks good to me. But I might check back the turn cuz I'd hate to be x/r'ed.

I agree... Sometimes 4b pre.

In the hand 1 example, you should fold the flop facing the c-bet + call with bottom pair and gut shot to a bad straight. When a Q hits, anyone with Ax has a better straight, and it's just not a great spot. I'm super surprised you won the hand when it checked down.

Let's go through the main hand here.

Pre-flop - you really should re-raise this pre-flop (probably to $80 knowing that you'll have to stack off if he ships given stack sizes). You said villain is going to be pretty wide pre-flop. I agree with that, but that suggests you should raise with TT here.

A lot of terrible things happen when you just call.

First, you let villain and likely others continue to play with a range of hands that are not good for your TT. For example, KJ has a ton of equity, as does AJ, KQ, QJ, etc., etc. You are very happy putting in a raise and getting people to fold what is easily a group of collective ranges with 2-4 over cards to your TT, making you a dog over all. If they call when you raise, that's OK too - but a raise at least gives you more ways to win.

Second, you will almost certainly play the hand oop to someone - you are very likely to get at least one more person coming along with the 2 callers between you and V.

Flop - I think your call is fine. You're calling to see what happens on the turn.

Turn - I think you should check the turn and not bet. What are you accomplishing by betting? He won't call with many worse made hands or fold many better ones. And that should be the primary consideration. There's also a lot of benefit to keeping the pot small.

He has some draws and over cards, but often times it's still better to keep the pot small and check behind. I also think there's a real risk he's going to c/r you here. That's not necessarily a reason not to bet, but in this case here's an aggressive villain who could easily c/r you with a range of draws and made hands that exploits you.

The turn bet, if called, also put you in what you feel is a tough situation like the one you're facing on the river. I mean, you only have 1/3 of a pot sized bet left after you the turn. When you bet the turn, you committed well over 50% of your stack to the pot.

You need to plan the hand to commit the chips you want to commit given many variables including your relative hand strength, ability to get value, villain's range, etc.

The fact is, once you bet the turn and get a call, it's really hard to fold the river. And you should only be betting the turn with the plan to stack off no matter the action you face, and had you planned the hand, you wouldn't really have a river question here.

Optimal turn play is to check back turn and play the river in position.

River - Eh, I really don't know what he has either. But you're getting > 4:1. I think it's actually unlikely enough that he has a very strong made hand. The flop is very drawy, and it would be quite strange for him to c/c the turn oop with a strong made hand.

I think you have a few good ideas about his possible value range (the weak draws made two pair), but I think you gotta call this every time. The bottom line is that you really made your river decision on the turn.

I did regret the call right after I made it.

When at the table I felt good about my hand ott and meant the bet to be valueish more often than not. After I thought about it later, I agree it's better to just check back. I wasn't paying enough attention to Pot-Stack ratio which is definitely something I need to work on.

I know mostly likely I have to call, but I'd be happier to call if he insta shoves on scary river card than a blank...

Like this comment a lot. Thanks Willyoman.

Welcome to the forums. Keep reading, keep posting. There aren't many women out there who are fine, aggressive NLHE players. Get really good at this game and you will make a pile of money.

Couple of general thoughts.
1. In general, you need less equity if you're closing the action, than you do if others are left to act. (Stay out of the middle.)
2. In general, you need more equity to call than to bet.
3. In general, you need more equity to play multiway than heads up.
4. Kudos for not slow-rolling in hand 1. You will from time to time find profit in pissing someone off. But in general it's best to keep the fish happy. They are just there to have fun. Win some, lose some, high fives all around. Awkward moments kill action.

I know what you mean, but you are leveling yourself a bit.

V has "something" when he c/c the turn.

I don't know exactly what "something" is.

I do know that if I decided to commit to calling all river shoves given stacks and pot, I'd rather him shove a blank river than say the Q, etc.

Scare cards are scare cards for a reason.

They're scary.

So just be careful of self-leveling yourself. Putting people on ranges will help you make much better decisions and avoid leveling. It will help you remember that he has to have "something" on the turn, and for his range of "something," a lot of river cards should scare you.

Though in this case getting < 4:1, you're probably always calling.

On the river, by the way, for hands you beat, I think he can have a hand with no showdown value, or a pair + draw type hand that never wins and he's bluffing, etc., etc. More than enough bluffs to call.

By the way, when I say "something," I mean I'm just not going through the effort of ranging what that something is in my post, and I also mean that it's never total air.

It includes plenty of draws, pairs + draws, pairs etc. For the non-obvious ones - a hand like Td7d, for example, is a flush draw turned a combo draw. Or 7d6d, flush draw turned pair + draw. Also consider hands like 8d5d for the flopped flush draw and turned gutter or 8d7x for flopped backdoor flush and turned OESD, etc., etc. There's a decent amount of weird random stuff like that in his range that has no showdown value or very little showdown value.

So again, when I say a scary river should scare you... I'm saying it because the range you should be putting him on on the turn often does improve when scary cards fall.

Anyway, it barely matters in this case because we're calling.

Don't straddle.
I'm ok with flop call.
Turn is meh. Don't really fault you for betting but prefer checking.
Rivers close either way, calling given price

If hero bets turn, then hero has to call any non diamond river.
If I was betting turn, I would just shove.

Hand 1 is interesting b/c so many combos he can't have. Can't have TT+, Kx,Jx,Tx. Best Qx hand is Q9, would be a loose call preflop. Could have flopped straight with AQ, but is that slowing down on the turn? Next best would be Ax for a gut shot. Otherwise he was completely bluffing.

OP, why do you think his range is so wide pf? The hands your describing, like 24s, would make him a maniac. Your getting better than 4:1 here so if his range is that wide pf I would think there's enough air still in his range to call river

I thought weak A too, but the fact he was very reluctant to show down made me think that he stabbed with air.

I see your point. My thinking is he is playing more than 60% hands so he is loose. That straddled pot can be a spot to steal, and if he decides to utilize his (relative) position other than cards, he could potentially be doing it with ATC.

Flatting pre is fine, his range is probably strong.

Flatting flop looks good.

I'd check back turn with these stack sizes. Not much value out of betting so it's pretty much just a protection bet.

River I'd probably make a crying call.

grunch

I think I call, if he is shoving the river for value, why didn't he shove OTT when you bet ~half your stack. the only thing I see him showing up with is 53dd or 42dd.

Also, your flop call with T9 on the KJT board is pretty bad, especially after somebody else calls the flop. You bottom pair, no kicker and the ass end of a straight draw that would be good very rarely.

edit - and omg we need to be 3betting preflop. I don't agree with your "call and keep him in" thoughts for many reasons

1) It's for >10% of our stack
2) We're OOP nvm mis read HH
3) An overcard is flopping a lot and you will be in check/pray/call mode
4) You aren't guaranteed to go heads-up with V

He's not continuing because that's a pretty bad barrel card. Hero is calling with most hands that flatted the flop.

This post wins.

Straddling is bad. Stop.

Shoving the turn is really bad. I'd rather bet a weakish looking $35 trying o induce villain to jam. If we shove, we're pretty much getting snapped by anything beating us (because I don't expect villain to ever fold Jx or better), and we almost never getting a call from worse.

The more I think about this, the more I think we're not good here, however if we are going to put in almost half our remaining stack ott just to fold the blank river, we're probably burning money. Still calling, obv. Snap-shoving is generally a sign of weakness too.

ii am never leading out on the turn nothing that loses to you will call except maybe a flush draw. i think villain could be on a weird two pair or set here. when villain bets out on the flop he is probably fearing a flush draw so trying to make you pay to draw. i like checking back on the turn and trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible.

Agree with not straddling. You are turning your 100bb stack into 50bbs. Oop straddles are better in certain other scenarios.

As for the hand, he would have to be pretty bad for you to have him beat here.
When you bet on the turn, given the effective stack size you are leaving yourself with, i think you are committed to calling a river that doesnt change the board much.

From the villain's perspective, you played the hand exactly like a jack. With your call and bet sizing on the turn, you would never play AJ or better this way, right? It just doesnt look very strong. I dont think he thinks that he can bet and get 3 streets of value from you. I can certainly reason that he's maximizing value with this line and create a pot where you are committed to stack off on the river.

I also like checking on the turn for various reason stated above.

Thank you for the kind words.

Semi grunch: the only good reason to straddle UTg is if there's a super whale/maniac to your right.

I'd raise pre vs. someone with such a trash range.

Agree check back turn and snap off bluffs in good rivers.

Thanks for all the responses. I have realized that checking back turn would have been a better play.

Just to expand the problem a little bit - If we check back turn, and v commits the same action otr (i.e., he shoves all-in into the $150ish pot, and we have 160ish behind), how much difference would that make?

My thoughts would be: His hand now looks like a weak J or draws. River doesn't complete any (obvious) draw yet he shoves, so it could be JK or JQ that is going for thin value, or a bluff (now has more FE given our stack size). Given limited read I think I fold. Would like to hear more opinions.

-I think you should straddle if you want to. There are possible image upsides, it may punish weak limpers more, and if you find it makes the game more fun then do it. People telling you not to straddle is weird, keep it up if you like doing it.

-I think V rarely checks a J or better on the turn. The board is draw-heavy and he can get value with a turn bet. So if TT is generally best then what's wrong with betting the turn? He may call with a 9 (tho maybe its hard for him to have one given pf), or a worse pp that thinks you're drawing. You miss the possibility of bluff-catching the river but he may never bluff it. If he raised pf with AK,AQ,KQ those beat all of your missed draws so he wouldn't need to bluff them. But maybe he thinks differently or I'm wrong.

-It's interesting that he calls the turn instead of just shoving. Maybe he just didn't realize how much you had left behind? That can be forgotten in the heat of the moment.

-As played, I'd call. You don't need to be right much. Interesting stuff though.

I'd bet ott. With QQ+ isn't V just going to bet/bet/bet? Looks like some combo of straght draw+flush draw+over cards to me. V is definitely going to just assume you have AJ/KJ/QJ/diamonds and bet the turn strong with an overpair. Not that many 1/2 players bet draws oop, I can think of about 3 in my room who do it, and if they do it's almost always just otf. Once they get to the turn and the pot's building and they're one card away from whiffing they get scared.

Call and wait for him to say you got it as he mucks his nfd.

I might be more inclined to call a shove than a bet of $80-100. One reason is what you said about FE.
You said your image seems pretty tight to him right now, right? So based on that it's unlikely that he thinks you are going to call a river shove with worse than JK/JQ. I don't think he shoves a weak J there, unless he thinks he can't win unless he get you to fold, but that's not very consistent with his pf line

as played, call river. like you said, he reps nothing that can beat you.

as for the hand:
dont straddle
3bet pre, his raise is just a raise, not a 3bet.
then you can cbet flop, check turn, bluffcatch river