Please check out OP in thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh....php?t=1528145
For background context of this villain and I.

Very next hand.

Random (~350 with 3 black chips) limps late position
Villain (~950) raises to 15 from button
Hero (465) sb with KK 3! 40
Folds to random who calls.
Villain thinks for 30 seconds, can't believe hero 3!'s him my first 2 hands at the table, then says I'm all in.

Hero thinks for a couple of minutes then calls. Random folds.
Villain asks hero if I have a pair yet. I reply yes.
Board runs out 8 high and I flip over my kings and scoop. Villain mucks claiming he had AK, but I don't believe him. He asked for a count and started cutting out chips to pay me before dealer ran out the board.

Hand 3 where I'm looking for feedback.
About 3 orbits later.
1 field limper
Villain (~300) raises 10 from btn
Hero (~950) sb flats with Ac,Ks
BB shorty kid shoves for 56
Villain calls
Hero 4! 150
Villain says I have a good hand, starts to slide all his chips forward and says "alright I call all in"
Dealer stares for a bit then declares it a call
Flop (main 168, side 188) 6,6,3hh
Hero checks
Villain shoves 150
Hero???

Comments are appreciated.

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Your 3bet with KK is too small.

If you are going to call an all-in with AK on a 663hh board then I prefer you just shove the flop. If he has a draw he won't fold it on that board regardless. We could potentially fold out some pocket pairs and we protect against random junk getting free cards.

All of this. Also you should absolutely 3-bet AK given history unless you have a physical tell on BB that he is going to shove.

I'm shoving this on the flop. Also why did you elect to back raise instead of 3b villains btn open?

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I would have 3bet pre, unless you knew shortie was shoving, then I get it. Shove flop yourself. As played, call.

I don't believe we'll be folding out any pocket pairs here, so I reckon it's better to ch/c all-in than to shove yourself. By checking you allow villain to spazz with his "random junk" that has six or three outs. Ch/c would be my plan if we were heads-up.

But maybe things are different with the shorty already being all-in.

I don't understand why your 4bet wasn't all-in. It should have been. As played, call the floor and get his action to be ruled an all-in and call it. On the flop, I think check-call is the only reasonable action. Betting might get a little value, but given the history and all, I think he bets himself with a wider range than he calls. I think you have ~0 FE against better hands.

Decided to just flat villains raise with AK to keep my range wide oop. Based on little history between us, figured there was no way he would put me on a premium when I flat. Wanted to balance a bit and try to get more value from favorable flops.

Shorty shove range in my estimation was very wide. Especially given action by me and villain before he acted. In his eyes, how can i be strong and not 3! Villain? I 3! A lot. And villain has history of opening wide. Therefore shorty range is almost any ace and 66+, maybe even two big cards like KQ. I would shove wide in Shorty's position.

After shorty shove and villain just flats, i decide a healthy back raise to about 1/2 of villain's stack should have a fair amount of fold equity. My range for villain was very pocket pair heavy (99-JJ, maybe QQ). Figured villain would either fold in which case I'm liking my hand versus shorty with 1/3 pot being dead money. Or villain would just shove and I call with reasonable equity versus both ranges.

Not saying this was best line, just that this is what I was thinking at the time and wanted other opinions on.

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Perhaps not vs this particular villain, but in general I see it all the time.

6 outs twice. Even if he has T9 with no backdoor flushdraw he is still 23% to win the pot. Checking here allows him to realize his equity for free in a pretty sizable pot. To put it in perspective, if we go all in and show villain AK and the short stack also shows AK (or a hand like 22) then the villain would be getting nearly the right price to call with 87 high with no backdoor flush draw. If he had a backdoor flush draw then he should definitely call.

If the short stack opened folded then it would be more important that we go all in because our equity would be much greater.

I would check/call primarily if and because I expect villain to shove almost his entire range on the flop, hoping to fold out our AK/AQ type hands. I would like him to shove his 23% hands into us, instead of folding them to our shove.

Still, if I think I have any FE at all against his small/medium pocket pairs, I agree with you that shoving is better. And on second thought, I also agree with you that it would not be entirely unthinkable for a (bad) live player to fold his pocket pair on the flop after all.

I guess both of these conditions for either shoving or checking would depend on my reads at the time.

What range do you put villain on here? Is AK ever ahead?

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Nothing really constructive to add other than dealer should have given villain a verbal warning.

You need 22.8% equity to call.

6 outs twice is enough.

3 outs twice is not enough.

Ima call and feel pretty good about it.

So results.


Hero thinks for not nearly long enough, figures no way villain doesn't have a pair here and shorty could have one of my outs, so I fold.

Villain wins side put uncontested.
Shorty wins main with his unpaired AQ versus villain unpaired A10.

Maybe being results oriented, but really not happy with how I played this on the flop. Think check/fold was worst option.

Picked up a few orbits later to go home to bed. Not in good enough shape to be making good decisions at 8:30am after playing for 18 hours.

+550 session should have been ~+900.





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Did you really think you had to be ahead of villain's range to call here? That's pretty bad. With these odds it should have been a no-brainer call.

Agree

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