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1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? 1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position??

07-09-2019 , 04:50 PM
I think this is a pretty clear c-betting spot. That flop hits most of your range, so i think there's a good chance you take it down.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-09-2019 , 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
You've obviously never played poker as a woman
Only as a little girl.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-09-2019 , 07:33 PM
I'd check here and evaluate turns
There's no need to dbl barrel bluff a hand with this much showdown
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-10-2019 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
this is not how poker works. Every decision has a certain EV. Raising PF with TT will always be higher EV than limping. Even if you do decide to ALWAYS check the flop (which we would never do).
Literally missing the whole point. If you are going to raise UTG with TT - you are almost always going to be out of position, the fact that you actually are in position here is a luxury.

Im stating that if you are going to raise UTG and then check TT everytime an overcard comes out, which what? 75%+ of flops? then its better to set mine or limp reraise PF.

Just seems like a lot of level 1 thinking on this thread (not necessarily you, just in general). "I haz only 10's so i check." A KQx flop smashes your perceived raising range - im not saying you should cbet 100% of time, but it should be a pretty decent amount.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-10-2019 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubes9
Literally missing the whole point. If you are going to raise UTG with TT - you are almost always going to be out of position, the fact that you actually are in position here is a luxury.

Im stating that if you are going to raise UTG and then check TT everytime an overcard comes out, which what? 75%+ of flops? then its better to set mine or limp reraise PF.

Just seems like a lot of level 1 thinking on this thread (not necessarily you, just in general). "I haz only 10's so i check." A KQx flop smashes your perceived raising range - im not saying you should cbet 100% of time, but it should be a pretty decent amount.
I don't think anyone assumed that we would be auto checking everytime one overcard comes. We can certainly cbet many dry boards with one overcard with TT. Furthermore, the chance of flopping at least one overcard and no set is actually 62%, so less than 2/3 of the time.

A two overcard board with a flush draw is a lot different than K74r for example. Two overcards and no set only happens 23% of the time. We are in that 23% scenario so I am happily checking TT here and looking to get to my cheap showdown.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-10-2019 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by megamen70
I don't think anyone assumed that we would be auto checking everytime one overcard comes. We can certainly cbet many dry boards with one overcard with TT. Furthermore, the chance of flopping at least one overcard and no set is actually 62%, so less than 2/3 of the time.

A two overcard board with a flush draw is a lot different than K74r for example. Two overcards and no set only happens 23% of the time. We are in that 23% scenario so I am happily checking TT here and looking to get to my cheap showdown.
I agree. It's 1/2 and we have no reads. This guy could literally be all over the place and we don't know yet. I understand resorting to population reads but to me it's even too early for that. We cold easily run into a station or a passive nit with a monster. Let's give it a couple orbits before we decide how hard it will be for players to call a double barrel from an UTG raise, V could be completely oblivious. It's not just a dry one over card flop, there's two overs and a flush draw which we don't block.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-11-2019 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WehrmatsWormhat
I think this is a pretty clear c-betting spot. That flop hits most of your range, so i think there's a good chance you take it down.
And flop "hitting our range" isn't a reason to bet in every case. Its more of a reason to float wider/xr as a preflop caller as a bluff, or a reason to bet when you have air as pfr.

It isnt a reason to bet when you flop a mediocre hand. You have plenty of qx in your range to call down those hands. You'll bet and take it down here if your hand is good. If your hand is no good you probably just put in a bet with 8% equity.

2 over cards is a lot different from 1. In most cases on K/Q/J high flops with 1 over a bet would be a lot more reasonable. I don't really see how you can come in this thread with a "lol why scared of betting when over cards come out? Limp pre instead" mindset. There's a lot of terrible info in lots of these threads really, it's a good forum for discussion but you can't take the word of anyone around here as gospel. Checking here vs the average opponent is as basic as it gets.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-11-2019 , 03:25 AM
Two thoughts here:

1. you cbet $20-25 and if he calls, shut it down.
2. you check back, set mine and they may not believe you if you spike a 10 or maybe turn a open ended and see what villain does.

That being said: You haven't done anything in one orbit and your real first action is 6x the BB from UTG and SB, whom you may not have any history with, calls from the SB for 12? Not a fan of the play itself. Building a pot that big preflop increased your equity in the hand.

If you 3x or 4x the BB, you may get called by MP and SB or just SB and your cbet is much less to find out where you are at. At worst someone 3bets to 18-25, costing you less.

If your goal is to make a statement with a 6x bet that early, then I'd continue that statement with a strong cbet or realize that SB range here is limited and you're probably beat already.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-11-2019 , 02:12 PM
Frankly, we shouldn't be overthinking spots in 1/2 with 95 blinds. It is a value game for the most part, so I think versus a lot of opponents this is a clear c-bet (specifically because there are str8 and flush draws out). There may be some opponents at higher levels where this is a range check, but I think you actually will get some Qx folds here and a bet also has some equity protection vs Ax or Jx hands that we also want.

But hey, I totally suck this year results wise so maybe not listening to me is way better.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote
07-11-2019 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calldown88
And flop "hitting our range" isn't a reason to bet in every case. Its more of a reason to float wider/xr as a preflop caller as a bluff, or a reason to bet when you have air as pfr.

It isnt a reason to bet when you flop a mediocre hand. You have plenty of qx in your range to call down those hands. You'll bet and take it down here if your hand is good. If your hand is no good you probably just put in a bet with 8% equity.

2 over cards is a lot different from 1. In most cases on K/Q/J high flops with 1 over a bet would be a lot more reasonable. I don't really see how you can come in this thread with a "lol why scared of betting when over cards come out? Limp pre instead" mindset. There's a lot of terrible info in lots of these threads really, it's a good forum for discussion but you can't take the word of anyone around here as gospel. Checking here vs the average opponent is as basic as it gets.
Like yours?

Let's break this down:

1) Of course not, it's impossible for anything to work in "every" case in poker since people aren't playing optimally, so there are always deviations/exploitations we can make to make our action more +EV.

2 & 3) So when you bet flops, you mostly have strong hands and bluffs, and when you check you mostly have mediocre hands. That's sounds like a solid overall strategy.

4) What? There are many worse hands that can call us on this flop and we definitely have more than 8% equity. Let's see. AJ, any two lol sooted combos in the deck, J10, 109, gutshots, underpairs that are nonbelievers.

99.99% of the live population aren't capable of exploiting OP for cbetting 1010 here. They don't bluff-raise anywhere near the optimal amount, hence OP can realize all his equity IP and at the same time deny insane amounts of equity vs OOP which both increases the EV of his bet. In theory this isn't supposed to be a cbet for obvious reasons but we arent playing vs an optimal/aggressive bot, we're playing against guys that have no clue what they're doing and don't wreck our cbet strategies with an aggressive check-raise strategy that counters a strat that bets too many hands otf.

Betting will be very +EV here, and at the worst it will have the same EV as checking. Realistically, it's probably somewhat higher.

And fwiw I believe that people cbetting way too much is among the top and most common leaks, probably the #1 most common leak. The cbet here is absolutely more than fine. I'm indifferent to checking but lmfao at checking being as basic as it gets.

Last edited by Minatorr; 07-11-2019 at 06:06 PM.
1/2 UTG 10s vs KQ6 flop, c-bet in position?? Quote

      
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