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<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep <img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep

02-17-2023 , 10:00 PM
$1/2
8 handed
$360 effective stacks

V3 - 50s white guy. A gambling rec player who wants to see flops. Super wide range when limp-calling pre-flop. He has showed up with 98o for $15. All suited connectors/gappers, pairs, and broadways are in his range. He doesn't raise pre either, so big pairs are in his range, too. He doesn't bluff.
Hero - Winning tag image

The hand:

Pre-flop
5 limps to hero who raises to $17 in the SB with TT
V1 calls in BB
V2 calls UTG
V3 calls in MP

Flop ($60)
542r
Hero bets $40
Only V3 calls

Turn ($140)
8 - offsuit

Hero?

Betting to get value from draws and 1 pair hands? Checking to Pot control?
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-17-2023 , 10:37 PM
I think you bet here. He could have 76 or he could have outflopped you, but he could also have 87, 66, 65, Ax, maybe even 86/75/3x or A6. If he called flop with those, he's calling turn with those too. $75 or $85 seems OK.

But given your read you have to be disciplined enough to bet/fold. He shouldn't ever be raising worse.

I guess the problem here is that if he calls your bet, you'll be checking the river and then I guess you're checking to fold, given your read? Or you could maybe block-bet good rivers if you're confident in your read.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-17-2023 , 10:55 PM
$80
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-17-2023 , 11:59 PM
I’d bet 50, betting small to get value from most of his range while minimizing damage when he raises. Probably intending to bet small on most rivers except the ones that complete one liners.

The fact that he doesn’t bluff is relevant to our line and sizing.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-18-2023 , 12:42 AM
i actually missed that you bet so big on the flop. his range now contains a lot of strong hands that beat yours, and less weak hands that dont. so id bet small or check.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-18-2023 , 07:54 AM
Against the described Villain, what hands are folding to 40 on the flop that would have called 20?
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-18-2023 , 12:21 PM
Op raise more pre. Like 25.

˝psb otf is fine... I like to ľbetfold another street ... if he continues then I think we have to give up otr no matter the run-out otr. Getting value from 99 77 66 33 A5 65 A4 A2 89 AK which will check back otr ui... I think he's raising JJ+ 54 and slow playing sets and str8.

Last edited by nonsimplesimon; 02-18-2023 at 12:30 PM.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-18-2023 , 02:47 PM
Grunch.

Firstly your preflop raise needs to be much bigger. There is already $13 in the pot before your raise. There are a boatload of limpers.
You certainly have the best hand preflop but you are in the worst position post flop and most flops will be unfavorable. I would make it around 30. If everybody folds that is not a bad outcome for you. If you get it heads up that is not a bad outcome for you.

I agree with betting this flop. We are likely to still have the best hand but we require protection and denying equity to over cards and weak SDs. your sizing is reasonable.

On the turn I am somewhat indifferent between checking and betting. One of the most likely draws gets there. Our hand is not that strong and can not stand a raise. So I think optimal play favours a check. Against this opponent however we can push some thin value more. So I am not super opposed to bet folding turn and check evaluating river with a bluff catcher.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 12:29 AM
Hero checked turn.

River was a 5 and we both checked.

Villain showed pocket 3s.

I took forever to make a decision on the turn felt like I missed value when I saw his hand.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curdanol
Hero checked turn.

River was a 5 and we both checked.

Villain showed pocket 3s.

I took forever to make a decision on the turn felt like I missed value when I saw his hand.
were you planning on folding river ?
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 12:37 AM
River is a perfect scenario for a "blocker bet".

Bet small ($50). Blocker bets are ideal with hands that have enough thin value that they may be called by worse against villains who don't bluff as you describe here. Makes it a super easy b/f.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1
were you planning on folding river ?
No, I thought I had the best hand. I mostly didn't want to play a huge pot with a medium strength hand. I would have called any river that didn't put 4 to a straight on board.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curdanol
No, I thought I had the best hand. I mostly didn't want to play a huge pot with a medium strength hand. I would have called any river that didn't put 4 to a straight on board.
imo you should bet river small, his range after he checks turn is mostly pp's lower than TT. they will not fold to a small bet.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 08:36 AM
You missed value for sure. If you had bet turn he probably calls that (getting the wrong price, if you had used my suggested sizing) and then checks back river.
<img /2 Turn Decision with Overpair 180 BBs Deep Quote
02-19-2023 , 08:33 PM
Against this specific villain I think $80 on the turn is correct. Your read is that he limps wide so he’s more likely to have a hand worse than yours like a pair+draw. You also said he doesn’t bluff so you always know exactly where you are. If he calls and the river bricks I think you can bet $100 on the river. Again this is not the GTO answer but against this specific opponent with your read this is a 3 street value type hand
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