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1/2 - TPTK vs 3bet jam OTF 1/2 - TPTK vs 3bet jam OTF

02-25-2015 , 01:31 AM
1/2 table at Maryland Live. Villain has been at table for about an hour now and is ~100bb deep. He is a white male in his 50s playing very LAG; playing a lot of pots, been caught bluffing once or twice, but has also been turning over monsters, on something of a hot streak. I have a good and aggressive image at table with ~600bb, although I don't think I have played many big pots since he sat down.

Villain limp in MP, two other limps to me and I raise to $11 on the button with AKo. Villain calls, two folds.
Pot = ~$29
Flop comes A 8 6
Villain bets $25, Hero raises to $60. Villain jams for another ~$140. Hero...?

The only hands that I would expect him to be jamming here that I could beat are FDs, a pair w/ a FD, maybe AQ with the way he's been playing, and of course air. I think he could very likely have something like bottom or middle set, A8, maybe even calling PF with 86 considering the way he's been playing. I could also see him jamming JJ-KK here, although I think he would have 3bet PF with any of these.
He also has a wife/girlfriend/something sitting there watching him, which I think makes it more likely that he's trying to make a playe here. With 2:1 on a call here, I need to be good only 33%+. Should I be calling? Should I have played PF or the flop differently?
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02-25-2015 , 06:36 AM
I think I'm raising it to 15 preflop. With 3 limpers the pot is worth taking now, and you will likely get 1-3 callers if your 1/2 games are anything like mine.

As played with 29 in the pot your SPR (Stack to Pot Ratio) against the Villian is about 6.5 This is low enough to be committed with TPTK on the flop against a LAG villain, especially with a flush draw on the board.

It's a call against his shove imo.
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02-25-2015 , 07:03 AM
Raise more pre. Against an active player who has already shown a few bluffs, I'm good with calling in this spot.
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02-25-2015 , 07:09 AM
With him playing so short, I'm fine with GII in this spot.

Given your read of him, if he is a true LAG AND so short, it's OK to flat him here (prior to your raise, I mean) and let him punt the rest of his stack to you also.
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02-25-2015 , 07:44 AM
Board is so wet, you are forced to call here. When you add all of the FD/SD combos, to his range, you are slightly ahead enough to make it profitable long term.
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02-25-2015 , 10:09 AM
Definite call for 100bb against this type of player on a wet board. He's most likely chasing but could have two pair. I hope you hold and/or hit a K.
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02-25-2015 , 11:10 AM
Against this type of player, I think I'm only ever raising the flop if I'm planning on shipping. So I think the question should be, "should I flat or raise/call?" Either seems fine. I prefer flatting if you think you can better suss out his hand ott based on sizing and other tells. I prefer raising if you think the flop bet is most often a dominated ace that will go with it.
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02-25-2015 , 11:23 AM
Get it in if V started 100BB deep. You're probably flipping against his Ax clubs and well ahead of weaker aces. I doubt your average villain leads with a set or two pair. How did villain act on the flop with his monsters?
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02-25-2015 , 12:08 PM
PF: Too low. With three limpers and AKo on the BTN, I like to make it $14 to $16.

F: Heads up. Pot is $29. SPR is 7. Do we have the Ac; this makes a big difference in our evaluation. So V donks pot into us; strong move. I like to do this in a pre-flop raised pot, heads up against the PF aggressor, when an Ace falls on the flop. Not to say he has it, just saying.

So when we raise to $60, we've put in 35% of the effective stack. When we make this raise, what is our plan if he shoves. I mean the guy just donked pot into us; we have to have a plan if he shoves.

As played, I'm folding here. The guy just donked pot, we raised, and he jammed. That is very strong; we do not have the best hand, especially if we have the Ac, which means he likely isn't doing this with a flush draw.

If he is somewhat of a lag, then raising the flop doesn't really make sense. If we think this guy is really bluffy, probably best to just call him down if we decide to go with the hand. The SPR is 7 which is too high to commit with TPTK. If we would of PF raised to $15, then the SPR would of been 5, which could of been a good SPR to get it in with TPTK against this V.

Edit: I guess I'm in the minority here. Everyone else says call.

Edit2:
Well "Professional No-Limit Holdem" says that with TPTK, you can commit with the following SPRs:

Tight Villain: 2
Average Villain: 4.5
Loose Villain: 7

So I guess you can get it in. I guess, I'd say that we should fold if we have the Ac and call if we don't have the Ac.

Last edited by Below Zero; 02-25-2015 at 12:15 PM.
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02-25-2015 , 12:19 PM
s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
How did villain act on the flop with his monsters?
That's a good question - if I could answer that I probably would have been able to make the right call a lot more confidently here. I can't remember how he played his monsters OTF. This was my third time playing live at a casino, definitely something I need to start making more of an effort to commit to memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
PF: Too low. With three limpers and AKo on the BTN, I like to make it $14 to $16.

F: Heads up. Pot is $29. SPR is 7. Do we have the Ac; this makes a big difference in our evaluation. So V donks pot into us; strong move. I like to do this in a pre-flop raised pot, heads up against the PF aggressor, when an Ace falls on the flop. Not to say he has it, just saying.

So when we raise to $60, we've put in 35% of the effective stack. When we make this raise, what is our plan if he shoves. I mean the guy just donked pot into us; we have to have a plan if he shoves.

As played, I'm folding here. The guy just donked pot, we raised, and he jammed. That is very strong; we do not have the best hand, especially if we have the Ac, which means he likely isn't doing this with a flush draw.

If he is somewhat of a lag, then raising the flop doesn't really make sense. If we think this guy is really bluffy, probably best to just call him down if we decide to go with the hand. The SPR is 7 which is too high to commit with TPTK. If we would of PF raised to $15, then the SPR would of been 5, which could of been a good SPR to get it in with TPTK against this V.

Edit: I guess I'm in the minority here. Everyone else says call.
I should have mentioned that I do not hold the A here, as that definitely would have changed things. I agree with V donking into us and then raising being really strong here, which is actually why I folded, but reading over this post I can agree with the majority now that folding is most likely the wrong move.
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02-25-2015 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
Well "Professional No-Limit Holdem" says that with TPTK, you can commit with the following SPRs:

Tight Villain: 2
Average Villain: 4.5
Loose Villain: 7

So I guess you can get it in. I guess, I'd say that we should fold if we have the Ac and call if we don't have the Ac.
These are general guidelines and are not set in stone. AJo with a J 7 3 rainbow flop is a lot different than AKo on a Ah 8c 6c flop, though both are technically TPTK.

With a 6.5 SPR against a loose villian I might consider folding a 3bet shove with the first situation, but am definitely calling the second situation.
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02-25-2015 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckymonkey
These are general guidelines and are not set in stone. AJo with a J 7 3 rainbow flop is a lot different than AKo on a Ah 8c 6c flop, though both are technically TPTK.

With a 6.5 SPR against a loose villian I might consider folding a 3bet shove with the first situation, but am definitely calling the second situation.
I guess I'm not understanding the difference between the two flop scenarios you brought up. With an SPR of about 7, against a loose villain , and with TPTK, you may fold to a three bet shove on a J 5 3 rainbow but would call on a Ah 8c 6c board? Why is that? Because the second board has the possibility of the loose V shoving with flush draws and straight draws?
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02-25-2015 , 02:29 PM
why are you raising the flop if not to get all in?
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02-25-2015 , 03:21 PM
This is simply a question as to what range we think villan takes this line with. Since we raised flop im going to assume we think we are ahead of his range. We should not be raise folding flop. We should be planning on getting it in once we raise. I'm sure a lag can get it in with random draws etc. The A of clubs is still in play so that increases his combos of flush draws. We need to be willing to accept some varience when playing a LAG.

I suppose my only question is how big we're the pots when he was caught bluffing?
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02-25-2015 , 10:46 PM
Call
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02-25-2015 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
I guess I'm not understanding the difference between the two flop scenarios you brought up. With an SPR of about 7, against a loose villain , and with TPTK, you may fold to a three bet shove on a J 5 3 rainbow but would call on a Ah 8c 6c board? Why is that? Because the second board has the possibility of the loose V shoving with flush draws and straight draws?
in the first scenario, TPTK can be beat by an overpair, and given the board texture, you are very likely against a made hand as opposed to a draw.

in the second scenario, you have the best one-pair hand, could be up against worse one-pair hands and a whole bunch of pair+draw combos.
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02-25-2015 , 10:55 PM
I was playing last night there and I was making it $25 pre with AK and still getting like 3 callers. It really doesn't mater how much you make it at some of these tables LOL ppl like to gamble!

As played tough spot. Same thing happened to me. I made it $25 in SB - 3 callers.

Flop was AJ9 I cbet $40 and a lady goes all in for $100 more and I call and she has AJ and she holds. I find that most people will just call if they have a draw or 1 pair at the 1/2 tables and jam 2pair+

When you get a bunch of callers like that they can really show up with anything and make you hate life.

But raise more PRE
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