£1/2 TPTK face flop raise and river shove - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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£1/2 TPTK face flop raise and river shove

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05-13-2015 , 06:24 AM

day'n'night

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,523

I just sat down at the table so no reads on villain.

Villain - £140 eff - Looks like typical recreational player talking about hsp etc but no hands on him yet..

Hero - £240 eff - young player

Villain 2 - irrelevant

Hero opens to £8 in MP with A

, Villain 2 calls and Villain calls from CO.

Flop - £23 - Q

Hero bets £15 , villain 2 folds, Vilain raises to £35 leaving him £105 behind.

At this point , evaluate, call/shove/fold

Anyways I called.

Turn - £93 - K

Hero checks, Vilain "tries to act weak" looks at his chips and shoves £105

Call or fold

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05-13-2015 , 06:37 AM

WarPig6565

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 256

I call on the flop and fold the turn. You're only ahead of an aggressive play on a flush draw. Q,K seems like a decent possibility.

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05-13-2015 , 10:01 AM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,863

If you are not going to gii on the flop, definitely fold the turn.

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05-13-2015 , 10:15 AM

day'n'night

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,523

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

If you are not going to gii on the flop, definitely fold the turn.

are you saying the best play here would have been to gii on the flop?

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05-13-2015 , 11:45 AM

ibimon

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 998

almost 1:5 to peel turn, so call and evaluate.
turn fold.

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05-13-2015 , 12:45 PM

Agorophob

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 136

Direct odds are too good to fold OTF. I don't see any reason to 3b GII here, so definitely a call.

Turn is a fold. We don't beat anything.

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05-13-2015 , 09:59 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by day'n'night

are you saying the best play here would have been to gii on the flop?

What do you put V on? I am not raising pre, calling basically a min-raise w/ TPTK, then check/folding that turn. So, yes, I'd rather get it in on flop w/ his stack than play this way.

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05-13-2015 , 10:03 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,863

Basically, what were you hoping for on the turn?

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05-14-2015 , 01:01 AM

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

Shoving flop at these effective stacks is a good play IMO.

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05-14-2015 , 01:30 AM

#10

ninedash

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 96

I think that on the flop a call is probably +EV. You only need about 21% equity to continue and you probably have it. On the turn as played it seems like a fold, you need about 35% to continue and vs a recreational player who c/raised flop and shoves turn you're probably pretty crushed.

As for shoving flop, it doesn't seem like a great idea. You're not doing amazing vs good draws (you do well against NFD, but not amazing vs other big draws). I feel his raising sizing is more weighted towards 2p+ which are crushing you. He could also be doing this with a TP hand to "see where he's at" that's why I think it's best to call with these odds and see how turn plays

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05-14-2015 , 02:15 AM

#11

Tiltbox5000

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 150

I'm with Javanewt and Rumor, I'm either 3 bet shoving flop or folding (not folding), I see no point in leaving my opponent 1 pot sized bet. Seeing one more card and evaluating is basically giving your opponent a bunch of information and allowing yourself to make mistakes on future streets.

I don't even see the point of seeing one more street, we aren't drawing to anything, we have our TPTK, what more do we need to see? Without a very specific read, seems like massive -EV to not always put villain all in after he raises us on the flop.

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05-14-2015 , 04:04 AM

#12

Buster65

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,240

Shove flop.

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05-14-2015 , 04:13 AM

#13

Suess

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltbox5000

I agree that folding is worse than raising AI but still I think just calling and then reevaluating is best. Answer these:
1)What entails the "bunch of information" you give your opponent by just calling the flop?
2)Why do you think it is massive -EV to not shove flop? Against an unknown villain, why put 50BBs in there with, like you said, no draws and just one pair on a draw heavy board. If he is on a draw, obviously he's playing it aggressively and probably not gonna fold to a shove - neither will anything that currently beats us.

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05-14-2015 , 06:46 AM

#14

jambre

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,181

Just ship the flop, you aren't folding blank turns anyway so may as well avoid the freeroll to bad turn cards. If he ever is raising a bare Q, charge his draws etc... No point slowplaying vs short stack

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05-14-2015 , 03:36 PM

#15

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambre

This. Plus, remember the #1 leak at this level is people call too light. Give them more chances to do so.

The described villain is a typical rec player. This is how to play against that player. If he raise/folds, use that information going forward and pound the crap out of him with draws/bluffs when heads up.

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