Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan (<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan

11-28-2013 , 10:38 PM
Hero: I have only been at table for approx. 20 minutes, but I have seen villain play before. So far I have a tight image. I have played one hand vs villain where I was the pf raiser (I was in seat to the left of him) and he folded to my c-bet on an A-high flop.

Villain: Villain seems extremely aggro from previous hands and very very loose, playing over 66% of hands. I have seen him aggressively bet large amounts on very mediocre holdings (e.g. aggressively betting only a pair of 7's with 2 overcards on board, losing to something like a pair of kings). About 8 hours earlier that night he was pretty drunk and spewey.

My pf stack: $87
Villain pf stack: approx. $340


Pre-flop: I raised $8 UTG with AKo and 3 people called. The last caller was villain, who was the big blind.


Flop [$33 in pot]: Board came 6K10. Villain checked to me and I bet $15. The two other ip pf callers folded and then villain raised to $37. I called.

Turn [$107]: Turn card was 3 blank. Villain open shoved and I called for the last of my $42.


In retrospect, I realize that if I was going to continue with hand once villain ch/r the flop, I should have just jammed instead of calling since I was already committed for turn no matter what happened.

However, as played, what do you guys think? To me once villain ch/r flop, the only two reasonable options are fold or shove. Which would you have done? Once he did ch/r the flop, I had $64 left in my stack


As always, thanks for the feedback

-3Bet
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-28-2013 , 11:31 PM
shove flop and its not even a decision with that stack size. Flush draw, straight draw are very easy for vill to have given your description of vill and he's not folding those on the flop. Don't give him the chance to catch up or fold, just get it in.

Given how the hand is played, you probably look like a weak loose call monkey to vill, but given stack to pot ratios, he's putting you with any piece since you can very easily be on a fd.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-28-2013 , 11:48 PM
Serious suggestion:

You should try and do some more studying if needed, and buy in for more. Buying in for the max will a lot of the time be the best, but even having $150 in front of you will help to maximize your potential winnings when you are playing.

On to the hand:
Shove the flop over his raise. I would also encourage you to raise more pre flop. You have a very premium hand, and we would like to try and get value from it.

Also, bet the flop bigger. Once again, we have a great hand, let's get value. I'd bet something more like $23-$28. Then shove every turn card.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-28-2013 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Serious suggestion:

You should try and do some more studying if needed, and buy in for more. Buying in for the max will a lot of the time be the best, but even having $150 in front of you will help to maximize your potential winnings when you are playing.

On to the hand:
Shove the flop over his raise. I would also encourage you to raise more pre flop. You have a very premium hand, and we would like to try and get value from it.

Also, bet the flop bigger. Once again, we have a great hand, let's get value. I'd bet something more like $23-$28. Then shove every turn card.
I'm all for buying in for 100bb, but the buy-in for the $1/$2 at all LA casinos ranges from only $40-$100... Including the worlds largest poker casino: Commerce. I bought in for the max ($100) originally

I normally play online so I'm still trying to adjust to casino. Both of your suggestions make sense, raising more pf given my hand and also stack size and also betting more than 50% of pot size on flop. Online the pot size is automatically shown so sometimes I forget to track all the money going in live.

Thank you. What books do you recommend to study?
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 12:04 AM
Currently on my desk that I think are good to be comfortable with:

Professional No-Limit Hold 'Em
No-Limit Hold 'Em: Theroy and Practice
Harrington on Cash: Volume I & II.

And just keep posting here.
Tons of good advice suggestions and people here to help.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Currently on my desk that I think are good to be comfortable with:

Professional No-Limit Hold 'Em
No-Limit Hold 'Em: Theroy and Practice
Harrington on Cash: Volume I & II.

And just keep posting here.
Tons of good advice suggestions and people here to help.
That's funny bro I just ordered Pro NLHE by Miller & co. and also NL Theory by him as well on Amazon. Just got them a few days ago.

I also own Harringtons 6-Max Online ebook and Ed Millers small stakes NLHE.

I ran super cold yest though losing the above hand all-in on turn to villain who had 66 and earlier that night I lost all-in pf ($100) with my KK vs AA and also an all-in ($90) at flop where a villain caught a runner runner flush. Feeling like **** after yesterday's sessions bro, running so bad
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 12:18 AM
have to shove over his raise on the flop, you are way to short to just call.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 12:39 AM
Edit: TPTK

Once flop hits you must know that you are good vs villain most times
The fact that he 3bet flop shouldn't change that.
However your $8 pf raise is begging people to catch 2 pair vs u - this includes villain
He is putting you on AQ AJs 99 & lower and cbetting flop always...AA AK he's thinking you're 4 betting flop vs him always
and he instamucks...Turn he still thinks you are weak and he shoves knowing
you would have committed your stack on flop if you had the goods

I don't agree with the $8 bet pf because you want to isolate villain
only and not invite others in to crush u...

How did the hand end?

Last edited by Yellow Snow; 11-29-2013 at 12:41 AM. Reason: typo
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow
Edit: TPTK

Once flop hits you must know that you are good vs villain most times
The fact that he 3bet flop shouldn't change that.
However your $8 pf raise is begging people to catch 2 pair vs u - this includes villain
He is putting you on AQ AJs 99 & lower and cbetting flop always...AA AK he's thinking you're 4 betting flop vs him always
and he instamucks...Turn he still thinks you are weak and he shoves knowing
you would have committed your stack on flop if you had the goods

I don't agree with the $8 bet pf because you want to isolate villain
only and not invite others in to crush u...

How did the hand end?
I called his turn shove and he flipped over 66 for the set on flop. Next time With these bull**** LA $100 max buy-in stacks at $1/$2 you are all absolutely right I need to bet more than $8 in order to give me better odds on a flop shove (or make things like set-mining and two-pair mining against my TPTK hands VERY unprofitable long-run)
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 01:02 AM
I'm fine with preflop. Totally depends on the table, but $8-$12 is usually a good place to start, and AK holds up well multiway.

Flop is terribad. Less than half pot? With 4 people in the hand and that many draws are you kidding? Pot sized bet or go home. And ch/r that size always means a monster at 1/2. Just fold. You're good here almost never.

PS: Always pump up your stack to at least 100BB. Playing that short is a leak.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3BetBluffing
I called his turn shove and he flipped over 66 for the set on flop. Next time With these bull**** LA $100 max buy-in stacks at $1/$2 you are all absolutely right I need to bet more than $8 in order to give me better odds on a flop shove (or make things like set-mining and two-pair mining against my TPTK hands VERY unprofitable long-run)
Ya raise more pre. This is a cooler, it's just unlucky. You should of just shoved flop and when he shows the 66, "NH, chips please"
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 07:45 AM
wow that buyin cap sucks really hard. i wonder if the game is even that profitable with rake and tips to even bother playing in.

hand is standard, sure you can make it 10 preflop and bet a little bigger on the flop, given the structure of the game though its just a cooler spot.

one thing to point out is that the books mentioned in this thread might be more than a little outdated, i think there are better ways to learning how to beat low stakes live. as much as i hate short stackers, given the fact you are handcuffed by the buyin structure, learning how to properly play 40-60bb stacks might be +ev for you

of course you should also learn how to play 100bb+ as well
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkupossu
wow that buyin cap sucks really hard. i wonder if the game is even that profitable with rake and tips to even bother playing in.

hand is standard, sure you can make it 10 preflop and bet a little bigger on the flop, given the structure of the game though its just a cooler spot.

one thing to point out is that the books mentioned in this thread might be more than a little outdated, i think there are better ways to learning how to beat low stakes live. as much as i hate short stackers, given the fact you are handcuffed by the buyin structure, learning how to properly play 40-60bb stacks might be +ev for you

of course you should also learn how to play 100bb+ as well
What do you suggest I read for learning how to play 40-60bb?

I plan on moving on to higher stakes which offer regular buy-ins, but knowing how to play 40-60bb sounds like very good general knowledge to have. Online I always do 100 bb and most of the strategy I've read has been based off 100 bb buy-in, so I'm often confused a bit at these casino situations

Seems like gen strat is to do big pf raises with premium hands and jam (or bet pot size) on most flops where I hit a top pair or have an overpair, but I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification

Last edited by 3BetBluffing; 11-29-2013 at 09:42 AM.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3BetBluffing
Seems like gen strat is to do big pf raises with premium hands and jam (or bet pot size) on most flops where I hit a top pair or have an overpair, but I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification
No that's really pretty much it. With short stacks, a 6bb raise (or more really at most 1/2 tables) will make a 13-15bb pot.
Bet the pot on the flop for 14bb, jam for a pot sized (41 into 49 if you started with 60 BB) bet and call it a day.

If you are in EP and you have some very agro pre flop people on your left, you can also limp with your premiums and jam over the inevitable raise/call trains and pick up 15-25BB pre without a showdown when they fold, or go heads up with an equity advantage when they call with their likely weaker holdings.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote
11-29-2013 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
No that's really pretty much it. With short stacks, a 6bb raise (or more really at most 1/2 tables) will make a 13-15bb pot.
Bet the pot on the flop for 14bb, jam for a pot sized (41 into 49 if you started with 60 BB) bet and call it a day.

If you are in EP and you have some very agro pre flop people on your left, you can also limp with your premiums and jam over the inevitable raise/call trains and pick up 15-25BB pre without a showdown when they fold, or go heads up with an equity advantage when they call with their likely weaker holdings.
It there a pf raise ahead of us do we simply jam pf with hands like JJ and QQ??

Last edited by 3BetBluffing; 11-29-2013 at 12:21 PM.
(<img /) TPGK mid-stack vs Aggro Viillan Quote

      
m