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1/2 Tough Spot 1/2 Tough Spot

04-01-2013 , 04:02 PM
Hero $300 LAG at at table few hours. Bought in for 100. Doubled up first hand and since been up and down, a little unlucky in spots, playing the game the way this forum taught me! Young white male, dressed casual. Talkative, table is mental, players playing every trashy hand you can think of. Villain has seen me always raising into pots when I have it. Raising when I have a monster, betting when I have a monster. Getting value at every point.

Villain $350 spewtard sat table an hour. Already lost a buy in. Saw him call $36 OOP with A7dd. Drunk. Looks like a raver, that forgot to slow down 20 years ago. He bought back in for 50 and has ran it up playing stupid poker. I suffered a moderate bad beat to guy to his left when I moved in on the turn with the nut flush against a set which boated up river. Insta tripled up when I flopped a straight with 9J in a limped pot board 810Q and I raised original bet on flop and got 3 streets of value against some spewtards. Villain should be aware of this but he seems well drunk.

Anyway.

MP calls $2
Villain calls $2
SB folds (good player, aware I probably will raise)
Hero in BB with AcQs raises to $12
MP folds, villain calls.

Flop $27

As 8d 2d

Hero bets $23. Villain calls. I knew this fool would call with any ace. But obviously was scared of flush draw, and although I feel this bet prices him out I just know this fish would call with two diamonds also...

Turn $73

Qd

Don't know why. I just felt he had flush. He was looking for the turn. Didn't realise I was staring him down. He looked like he orgasm'd at the turn. For this reason I checked. Was gonna call a small bet. Anything pot size insta fold. Villain then checks. This confused me. But then I realised I would do this too when I was a level 1 thinking player before I joined this forum, realising had to bet streets raise when I had it.

River $73

6c

Obviously as he checked turn and the river didn't complete any stupid straights, I thought I'm compelled to bet fold here.

Hero bets $35

Villain then thinks, looks all pained. Looks at his chips. And

Villain moves all in...

Hero?!?!
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04-01-2013 , 04:14 PM
Fold, especially with the acting job. Do you really think he ever does this with two pair or as a bluff with so little money in the pot?
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04-01-2013 , 04:24 PM
Gotta bet the turn for value every single time. If your c/c the turn in this spot than you should be doing the same on the river
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04-01-2013 , 04:25 PM
fold

probably b/f small ott and otr and never expecting V to raise with anything other than a flush.

against opponents who will never make life difficult by raising scare cards, you can b/f all three streets for value. the only adjustment you have to make is how large your value bets can be on later streets. generally, the scarier the board gets, the smaller you have to size your bets.
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04-01-2013 , 04:34 PM
Preflop: Good.

Flop: Good.

Turn: Without tells this is a clear bet because you can get action from worse hands and protect your hand against the 4th diamond showing up. With the read bet/folding is still probably the best line, but reasonable arguments can be made for check/calling with the intention of check/folding the river or check/calling with the intention of betting small on the river and folding to a raise.

Also, make sure that your reads are actually reads and not feelings.
Quote:
looked like he orgasm'd at the turn.
is a read
Quote:
Don't know why. I just felt he had flush. He was looking for the turn.
is a bad feeling. They are different.

River: As played, I would bet the same amount and fold to a raise.

Also, please don't post bad beat stories in the descriptions.

Just my opinion...
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04-01-2013 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogodchao
fold

probably b/f small ott and otr and never expecting V to raise with anything other than a flush.

against opponents who will never make life difficult by raising scare cards, you can b/f all three streets for value. the only adjustment you have to make is how large your value bets can be on later streets. generally, the scarier the board gets, the smaller you have to size your bets.
THIS!
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04-01-2013 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjjudas
He looked like he orgasm'd at the turn.
this seems to be your only reason for checking the turn. but what did you actually see? a flinch? did he blush? did he scream, moan?

just seems like it was probably something fairly minor that you put a lot of meaning into, and it might have been something that you could have misinterpreted. maybe he was reacting because he was actually NOT happy with the flush draw. the best way to find out if you're beat is to bet and see if you get raised. in the long run, you're probably losing too much value by playing passively because of some little tic or movement, especially if this is vs. an opponent you're not too familiar with.

that said, i often say that there's no substitute for being at the table and that the main thing is just to analyze with an open mind and be honest with yourself -- in other words, realize you might be overreacting to something and sort of be in your own devil's advocate, as best you can, in the moment.
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04-01-2013 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by floppedawheel
this seems to be your only reason for checking the turn. but what did you actually see? a flinch? did he blush? did he scream, moan?

just seems like it was probably something fairly minor that you put a lot of meaning into, and it might have been something that you could have misinterpreted. maybe he was reacting because he was actually NOT happy with the flush draw. the best way to find out if you're beat is to bet and see if you get raised. in the long run, you're probably losing too much value by playing passively because of some little tic or movement, especially if this is vs. an opponent you're not too familiar with.

that said, i often say that there's no substitute for being at the table and that the main thing is just to analyze with an open mind and be honest with yourself -- in other words, realize you might be overreacting to something and sort of be in your own devil's advocate, as best you can, in the moment.
He lent back in his chair, as if the deck hit him (see Joe Navarro), and lent back forward, eagerly awaiting my turn action. Looked at his chips. Indicative when someone looks at their chips they are very comfortable with their hand. Did this again facing my river value bet.

Orgasm was a little far fetched! But this was the poker tell equivalent in my opinion!
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04-01-2013 , 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjjudas
He lent back in his chair, as if the deck hit him (see Joe Navarro), and lent back forward, eagerly awaiting my turn action. Looked at his chips. Indicative when someone looks at their chips they are very comfortable with their hand. Did this again facing my river value bet.

Orgasm was a little far fetched! But this was the poker tell equivalent in my opinion!
yeah, sometimes the behavior of a player is so pronounced that, unless it's a false tell, you pretty much have to respect it. i think your check was probably good given your description of his reaction to the diamond.
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04-01-2013 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogodchao
fold

probably b/f small ott and otr and never expecting V to raise with anything other than a flush.

against opponents who will never make life difficult by raising scare cards, you can b/f all three streets for value. the only adjustment you have to make is how large your value bets can be on later streets. generally, the scarier the board gets, the smaller you have to size your bets.
Solid advice here.

Reading people is fun and all, and I give reads/tells way more credit than most on this forum, but really b/f all streets is all we need to do in this situation.

As played fold.
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04-01-2013 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by floppedawheel
yeah, sometimes the behavior of a player is so pronounced that, unless it's a false tell, you pretty much have to respect it. i think your check was probably good given your description of his reaction to the diamond.
Yeah, I've worked a lot on reads, tells in my live game. Feel like its becoming a real strength. Along with everything I've learnt from all the guys who contribute in this forum.

Thanks everyone for comments.

Spoiler:

I folded after questioning why he checked his flush on the turn. I open folded AQ (don't normally do this but was last hand, pretty tired). Several of table gasp. Villain, thankfully, though I think stupidly turns up the 109dd. I leave feeling like I won a huge pot. Get admiring 'that guy is good at teh pokerz' looks - great moment
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