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03-24-2012 , 12:50 PM
Hand from 1/2 last night...pretty much plays itself but I'm wondering if I made a mistake on the flop...

In around 45 minutes I've played 1 hand, 3bet AK from lp, cbet flop and folded turn when v led. So I should look tight. $250

V1 is an older white man playing pretty tight, nothing out of line or unusual. $150

V2 is a younger guy, seems to know a couple other players at the table, has been pretty active but again nothing too out of line has been shown down. Covers everyone.

V3 is middle aged, white, new to table, wearing shades. He seemed to be confused on the definition of pocket pair and set, ie he had 77, flopped an overpair took it down otf and announced he had a set. I don't think he's good. $200

Pre: v1 limps UTG, v2 raises to 13 from UTG+1, hero calls with JJ in mp, v3 calls otb, v1 calls.

Flop: $52 4 way
J T 3 ss
V1 donks like $15
V2 raises to $40.
Hero raises to $100
V3 jams for ~$90 more, v1 calls, v2 folds, hero snaps.

Preflop idk if I should have 3bet or not, it's one of those situations where I'm probably calling 50% and 3betting 50%.

So I'm thinking my flop raise was a pretty big mistake and pretty much defines my hand as JJ or TT and let's villains play perfectly against me. Granted I got lucky b/c v3 had TT and I'm guessing v1 had some kind of sfd, but I still can't help but think I'm losing value on average by playing it so fast. Is this standard or would you be calling the flop? Or jamming it?
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03-24-2012 , 01:00 PM
play is fine imo, u need to have a cold threebet-range on flops, which is a super strong move and it should be pretty tight, meaning monster combo draws, top two, sets. if u raise with ur draws, it only makes sense to raise with the nuts.
raise to 100 or jamming doesnt make a difference in reality, but raising to 100 should look stronger imo, so i prefer this, since u want to have folds with ur draws.
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03-24-2012 , 01:08 PM
Nothing wrong here. Wet board. Get it in when you have the nuts. WP
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03-24-2012 , 01:09 PM
Grunch:

Preflop could go either way. By no means did you misplay it, in fact you may have to fold to a 4 bet if he shoves pre. It almost seems like he had an overpair at first based on flop action I like flatting with JJ a lot against decent players because it underreps our hand and if he's good and realizes you haven't gotten out of line, he wont call with much worse.

I am more likely to 3 bet if there are multiple limpers before his raise, unless I have the plan to play JJ really cautiously and for almost just set value and some showdown value. Thinking you played it wrong is results oriented.

The flop action is a mandatory raise in my opinion. As Howard Lederer used to say (when we thought he was good pre 2007), is that JTx flops are the worst to bluff and slowplay and many hands like those flops, so I would just keep shoveling money in there. The board is 2 toned as well for more reason to not just call. Sure your hand is faceup to any competent player as 2pair+, but its time to get money in asap beacuse some big draws, etc will never be folding. Get the moneys in because there are cards to kill your action, even against cooler type hands. NH
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03-24-2012 , 04:59 PM
played the hand fine NH
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03-24-2012 , 06:30 PM
WP by the OP.
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03-24-2012 , 06:32 PM
Board is so draw heavy against v ranges you've just got to get it in. Well played
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03-24-2012 , 07:08 PM
Agreed.
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03-24-2012 , 08:50 PM
Thanks for the responses and I was pretty sure that would be the consensus, but Ive only played in a casino 5 or 6 times so I'm still a little unsure about what typical villains are capable of. Fwiw, the guy who folded said he had KK (I believe him) for a solid live fold and a standard 2p2 fold. So I could be a bit RO here.
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03-25-2012 , 11:18 AM
You're right about being RO. Nh, wp. Not everyone will stack off with an overpair here. Vil could easily have a fd, sd or combo draw here and flatting would be a pretty big mistake imo.

Think about it: you're asking if you missed value, but you got ai with the nuts against 2 players.
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03-25-2012 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namdrahsirhc
You're right about being RO. Nh, wp. Not everyone will stack off with an overpair here. Vil could easily have a fd, sd or combo draw here and flatting would be a pretty big mistake imo.

Think about it: you're asking if you missed value, but you got ai with the nuts against 2 players.
+1
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