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02-19-2013 , 09:58 PM
£1 / £2 live cash game, 9 handed. Hero has tight aggressive image £420. Villain is loose aggressive player. Seen him calling bets post flop v light. Opens betting pre quite regularly. He is doing very well, by far largest stack, has £900ish behind.

Pre Flop
1 limper in MP. Villain raises to £10 on CO. BTN and SB fold. Hero has AhQh in BB. Hero 3 bets to £27. Limper in MP calls. Villain calls.

Flop £52
Q86r. Hero checks. MP checks. Villain bets £40. Hero raises £110. Villain flats.

Turn £272
Th (now 2 hearts on board).

Questions
1. Check - raise on flop - thoughts?
2. What should hero do on turn? (We now have £283 behind)
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02-19-2013 , 10:24 PM
Honestly it does not seem like he is drawing unless he is thinking on his feet I doubt he would have slowed down with two pair or a set. Only thing i am worried about is KK but his range is so wide according to your description cant really put him on that. I would bet a little over 100$ on the turn no need to scare him away in my opinion easy shove on river barring villain resumes aggression. If you are feeling that he might have two pair though you can check it but it is kind of odd to check raise then check the next street.
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02-19-2013 , 11:51 PM
Don't really like c/r with top pair. I usually c/r very rarely, and when I do it's with a massive draw or top pair + flush draw...or against total droolers that I want a bloated pot against when I flop mortal nuts.

His flat is a bit concerning, have you seen him playing one gappers like 57 or 79?

If not, the only hand you're beating is KQ, proceed cautiously. I probably c/c turn even though its weak as hell. I suppose the standard is a b/f but I would c/c and eval river.
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02-19-2013 , 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Avaritia
Don't really like c/r with top pair. I usually c/r very rarely, and when I do it's with a massive draw or top pair + flush draw...or against total droolers that I want a bloated pot against when I flop mortal nuts.

His flat is a bit concerning, have you seen him playing one gappers like 57 or 79?

If not, the only hand you're beating is KQ, proceed cautiously. I probably c/c turn even though its weak as hell. I suppose the standard is a b/f but I would c/c and eval river.
This.

I feel at this point you have over repped your hand and your still getting called.

After 3 betting pre you should lead out.

As played check/.......fold?!?!
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02-20-2013 , 02:32 AM
Bad spot. You are only beating KQ and this does not smell like KQ. The good news is that while you have overplayed AQ, your hand looks a lot like KK/AA, maybe QQ, too, and Villain appears to be a thinking player and could pick up on that. But the T on the turn completes a lot of draws that Villain could have, lots of gappers got there.

I guess check turn as played. Only call if you're getting odds on the flush draw. You'll probably have to fold unless he tries to suck in AA/KK and bets less than he should.
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02-20-2013 , 03:06 AM
hand was butchered from the start. 3b is wayyy too small with your stack size. something closer to 40 will deny him the odds of profitably calling. anything smaller is allowing him to call profitably with almost atc.

did you have a reason you didn't want to bet for value otf? why the c/r? if you really think he is that spazzy then wouldn't c/c all three streets and bluff catching get more value than c/r since it is going to be very difficult to get value from worse this way? just can't find any merits in c/r at all.
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02-20-2013 , 04:36 AM
Don't like the check/raise because it bloats the pot unnecessarily and it puts you in an awkward spot.

Disagree that all you're beating is KQ here. Feel like QJ, Q9, and JJ are also in his range.

For the turn, I would bet about 140 and call a shove armed with your flush draw. River depends on if a heart falls. If no heart falls, I feel like the hands you beat make more sense than the hands that beat you that actually make sense, so I would shove the river for your last 140.
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02-20-2013 , 05:36 AM
Even if villian is loose, im not sure he is flatting a 3b w/ Q9.

I missed hero had a flush draw. Im torn between c/c and bet/call. You cant bet/fold due to pot being bloated.

The hand being butchered pre and on the flop makes this tough.
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02-20-2013 , 07:00 AM
Thanks for your feedback. I don't think 3 bet should have been higher pre. If limper doesn't come in Villain folds majority of his range (he has folded to 3 bet in similar spot couple of hours ago to me). However, realise now that it would have just been more sensible to lead out 3/4 pot on flop.

Wanted to get advice on next street as well...

Turn £272 (continued)
Hero checks (after a bit of thought). Villain checks behind (does this quite quickly).

River £272
7d
What should hero do here? (We now have £283 behind)
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02-20-2013 , 07:10 AM
b/c or cram turn. Pots too bloated to do anything else.

River is bleh. Really unsure if we c/c or c/f given player type.
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02-20-2013 , 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fogodchao
hand was butchered from the start. 3b is wayyy too small with your stack size. something closer to 40 will deny him the odds of profitably calling. anything smaller is allowing him to call profitably with almost atc.

did you have a reason you didn't want to bet for value otf? why the c/r? if you really think he is that spazzy then wouldn't c/c all three streets and bluff catching get more value than c/r since it is going to be very difficult to get value from worse this way? just can't find any merits in c/r at all.
This is a very good point I don't understand the c/r either.....and the raise pre was def too small you should raise more simply because you are oop. The villain is in the CO and could any range of hands that you just gave him odds to call with ip.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using 2+2 Forums
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02-20-2013 , 10:32 AM
I think river is now a c/c. He may check back a weak Q but given description I don't think so. He now has a strait if 10 9 or Q9 were a part if his range. I c/c like a vag
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02-20-2013 , 12:54 PM
Even though we're probably way ahead of CO's iso-open, we're both deepstack and he's loose, so he ain't going anywhere preflop. Which means all we're doing is building a huge bloated pot OOP against a tricky guy deepstacked, which I really don't like. I just flat preflop and go from there. Our hand also plays decent multiway, so I'm cool with the limper coming along.

I like the flop check. Board is dry, our hand isn't very vulnerable, aggro guy will probably take a shot at things. It ain't the end of the world if the flop checks thru cuz we're not really looking to play for 210bb stacks (in spite of this guy calling down light). I don't like the check/raise. I think it blows him off his air / weak hands that we're fine with him continuing to bluff with, otherwise we end up building a hugenormous pot against possibly a better hand.

We really have to plan the hand in advance instead of getting to the turn with a PSB left and going "uh, oh-oh, now what?"; that question should have been answered on the flop. Anyhoo, at this point we've gotten ourselves into a situation where we have TPTK with a ~PSB left on the turn. The only play at this point is to shove, imo.

I hate the fact we're playing for 210bb stacks with a hand as weak as one pair. I think we were far too aggressive in this hand, but I'm passive like that.

GmrpassiveG
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02-20-2013 , 01:45 PM
grunch: check/shove

good play pre

if you were pretty confident villain would bet at flop then check/raise was good. without that read i'm leading that flop. villain did indeed bet and called a check raise so i'd say good play.

now your stack size puts this in a tough spot. i'm not sure we want a fold here and i'm not sure a lead shove is going to get called by worse. a little deeper and i'd say throw out a blocker bet. with it as it is i think i'm trying to get to showdown with Q's and shoving with a flush.

so i probably check turn.
if checked back then shove any A, Q, or heart river. c/c any other river.
if villain bets turn i'd shove over top (or call a shove).
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02-20-2013 , 01:48 PM
grunch after reading op's second post: c/c

after blank river i'm trying to get to showdown cheaply. if villain shoves it'd be a gut check... but anything closer to half pot i'm probably calling.
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