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1-2 top and bottom pair facing smallish 3bet on super wet flop

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12-22-2011 , 10:48 PM

GorillaRadio

newbie

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 22

1/2 nl at viejas in socal

Eff stacks about $230 (villain has hero covered)

villian is an older guy (mid 50s) who seems to be a fairly solid player, I recall him saying "looks like we got a ringer here" when i switched seats to be on his left.

hero is essentially an unknown to the villain, I have raised in position a couple times but have not shown down any hands since i sat at the table.

so heres the hand:

1 limper to hero in LP who raises to $10 with Q

SB and BB call while limper folds and we're 3 ways to the flop.

FLOP 9

POT $28
SB checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $34, SB folds, BB re-raises to $75
Hero?

Last edited by GorillaRadio; 12-22-2011 at 10:56 PM.

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12-23-2011 , 12:50 AM

PokerIsFrustrating

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,756

Do you have any other reads other than "villain is solid?" Is he one of those nittier old men? Does he splash around?

Vs a standard mid 50's guy I fold this because I'm assuming he's not the spazzy type, and older guys almost never push draws really hard.

When he b/3b this he has to have 2p+ (where you beat j9 which might not even do this and lose to everything else), or MAYBE he has a hand like AdTd which is 50/50.

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12-23-2011 , 01:20 AM

drowski

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,519

stove it, his range cant be much worse than AQ, j9, qj, kt, fd's, few combos of sets and like 10% random pair plus straight draws.

my guess is you aren't in good shape

(sorry dont have poker stove on this comp)

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12-23-2011 , 12:27 PM

bob_124

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,297

yea, vs. a range of KT, QJ, ATdd, and a few combos of 99, JJ, and some combo draws, you're 25% and not even getting 2:1 if you stick the rest in. Assuming no FE (he's never bluffing here, right?) this looks like a fold.

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12-23-2011 , 12:40 PM

royal_lv7

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 446

pretty much a similar situation happen to me. on these 9 J Q kinda board someone ALWAYS freakin have a straight its unbelivable.

ur bet on flop is to charge draw + value, but ur also not hoping people raise u. so when when ur raised the only hand u beat that can show equal strength that villain showed is nut flush draw + pair. which ur not ahead by much. u can't even beat QJ. but it sure feels like when u "call" he's just gonna flip over KT.

i would make a discipline fold here (dont know if i could make the fold if im actually playing at the table in ur shoe, but i think the right thing to do is fold)

If it feels like ur beat. then u r probably beat.

Last edited by royal_lv7; 12-23-2011 at 12:45 PM.

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12-23-2011 , 04:16 PM

PokerIsFrustrating

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,756

Maybe I'm off, but this isn't even close to a "discipline fold." Against standard 1/2 villains this is a fistpump, insanely easy no brainer fold at the table.

Unless you have reads that this guy will play AQ or naked Axdd this way, standard 1/2 villains will not b/3b anything worse than 2 pair or MAYBE huge combo draws.

You have the worst 2 pair. So if his range is 2p+ you might as well have AA or AQ here, since your equity isn't much worse.

If you wouldn't shove AQ or AA here vs a b/3b, you shouldn't be shoving Q9 just because "zomg i has 2 pair."

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12-23-2011 , 04:59 PM

alew22

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 619

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating

+ 1 million.

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12-23-2011 , 08:46 PM

GorillaRadio

newbie

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating

This guy splashed around a lot more than your typical old nitreg, which is the only reason I tanked for about 90 seconds. I agree it would have been a snapfold against your average methuselah. Actually there was one 2 pair hand that was worse than mine (J9), and he might not even reraise the flop with that.

I eventually decided that based on bet sizing he was never doing this with any kind of combo draw because he would have raised more. I made a painful fold and he showed me K10. It felt like a good fold at first but I wasn't sure if I was just being results oriented so i decided to throw the hand on here and see what other people thought.

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