Nice post Gobble. I read his turn bet for weak, but couldn't be certain. Yeah, in retrospect raising turn really does rep 7-X very well.

By waiting till the river though, we get strong evidence that he doesn't hold a 7. His tiny turn bet is decent evidence he doesn't hold a 7. His river check is very strong evidence he doesn't hold a 7.

So I played it a bit safer, waiting for more info to make a move. But again, I think he'd often have folded A10 to a big turn raise....

By the way, let's pretend I posted this hand from villain's perspective. Would most 2+2ers say call or fold? I'll bet at least a few responses would say fold. From villain's perspective, his opponent (i.e. ME) would usually just check behind with ace-X. Also, since his opponent (i.e. ME) has a good tight, non bluffy image there's no reason to think he'd bluff his missed flush draw.

I'm sure DGI will appreciate learning about freerolls, you learn something new everyday.

loll you have some ridic fps and are clicking random buttons at times. nfw I'm folding to this line if i somehow played the previous streets as poorly as villain. YOUR HAND MAKES NO SENSE ON THE RIVER.

pre is fine, flop is a little situation-dependent, wouldn't hate a fold.

i'd like to r/f turn.

river is a must-bet IMO, he's rarely checking this card OOP with anything better than a chop because, well, he would want value from hands that think they're chopping with. It's not like he has AK or 76 and is thinking "maybe this guy will bet and try to get me off a chop and then i'll win a big pot".

99% of ppl bet when checked to on this river. they get here with ax, diamonds and 7x and they bet them all. its only the otherwise weak players who suck at value betting who accidentally get this spot right by checking back ax.

seriously, OP should switch to pot limit omaha if he has that option. Playing passively till the river and then playing aggressively works much better there where you can rep so many more hands on the river and actually puts a lot of pressure on opponents. playing mediocre draws fast scoops money vs hands that should continue vs you but think they are too weak to get all in with. In holdem this style doesn't work so well. and if you can hand read well you actually get a lot of spots where you can credibly and profitably blow ppl off of chops(and they won't even feel like they are being robbed, they will just curse there luck that the board ran out bad).

I didn't read all the reply's but, you are never going to fold out a chop here, and I doulbt your getting called by worse so the river bet accomplishes absolutely nothing other than costing you more money the rare times your beat and opening yourself up to the odd check/raise.

limping on the btn with A6s is not standard in the sense that everyone does it. I'd probably raise 50% of the time depending on my image.

You are missing out on some insane value. Raising in position and taking pots down with a c-bet will add an EASY 2bb/hr to your winrate. Similarly, playing for a flush or two pair is just weak loose passive poker and its just not profitable unless you are deep and playing against a bunch of weak passive players that give odds post flop and will call you win you turn/river gin.

The way it becomes profitable is if you can utilize image and position. And by playing so weak loose passive, you are just losing out on tons of value.

And hence you are losing value. If you raise preflop you will be able to take down the majority of Ace high flops when your villains limped preflop.

Its not about A6 being the best hand, its about an opportunity to use image and position to set yourself up for post flop play.

I agree, villain made a ******ed bet on turn which does go a long ways towards turning his hand face up as Ax or a flush draw. But notice what you are doing. You are playing weak loose passive poker in which you need your villains to make horrible mistakes in order for you to win. And in this case, you needed villain to make a very weak bet which he did. However, if villain was half way competent and just bet 2/3 pot on turn you would have folded...

So what I suspect is happening is that you are taking a bunch of these loose passive lines and calling down "hoping" for that mistake and the mistake doesn't come and you end up folding. Or, in cases like these, the mistake occurs and you still don't win the hand because you didn't set yourself up to win.

I guess, to me, these sorts of loose passive weak call down lines result in us losing way too much money and value which is why I loath them...

You are mostly correct here, but you need to put "weak" 7x hands in his range. So I'd say 75% Ax, 20% busted draws and 5% weak 7x hands...

The problem I have is how we get here. We are putting ourselves in a -EV position where the best we can hope for is that villain misses his draw??? In fact, we incorrectly allow villain to set the odds for his draw on turn with a blocking bet that gives him odds to draw. So we basically travel through 2 streets of -EV play to get to the river in which now we have a chance for a +EV play.

If I were to draw an analogy. This hand is like someone calling down with pocket twos and then they hit a 2 on the river for trips and then they argue, "See, I hit river and can thus make a +EV play and bet for great value..." Unfortunately, to get to that +EV river they had to traverse two horribly -EV streets.

Similarly thing here. We are passive flop and turn and now on river we wake up and determine we are now in a +EV situation...

Like I said, you had to get through 2 -EV streets to arrive at a +EV river...

Overall, I sense you may be missing out on some serious value. Raising preflop in late position and c-betting vs 2 villains or less is insanely profitable and will add an easy 2bb/hr to your winrate.

Suited aces are one of the best types of hands to play a huge multiway pot with ip. I don't get how people can harp on the limp especially without him giving info on people's limping range or how likely they are to limp reraise or how likely they are to check fold on flops/turns. Raising or limping does depend on your image but also all those other things I listed. I'd rather iso here with like 98s than A6s assuming I would most likely get it heads up if called.

With that said if you don't think this guy ever gets tricky with a monster here (betting so small on turn then checking river to get you to bluff fds) then sure try and get him to fold the chop. Otherwise just check it.

DGI, FWIW, if I knew villain had A10 on the turn I still should call.

I have 16 outs to a chop, or about a 32% chance of chopping. Pot was $34 at that point.

.32*$17 - .68*$7 = +$.68

So turn call was not -EV against his hand.

obviously "if we knew" the exact holdings of our villains sure we can make tons of -EV spots +EV spots.

But your math isn't correct because if an K, Q, J, or 7 doesn't hit on the river and V bets $15 on the river you will call X% of the time hoping he was on a busted flush draw...

If you add in the times river is a brick and V bets $15-ish and you call... then its a -EV spot...

Similarly, W% of the time, this LAG is going to c/r you on river, Y% of the time he will call you on river to chop and Z% of the time he will fold to your river bet.

I submit that W is going to be > Z which means when you do the math, the spot is still -EV...