Hi 2+2,
I'm new, I've been reading this section for the last month or so and have really learnt a lot from reading the hand histories, so thanks

Scenario:
Hero has been playing very tight and the few showdowns have been solid. Built stack up to $250 from the $120 buyin over about 2 hours of play.
Villain 1 is a middle aged white man, fairly loose PF when cheap. All of his bet/raise sizing is generally quite low (in terms of the pot) usually. Not a great player but can read a board. Stack size $130.
Villain 2 is a young white guy who bought in low ($50) and has been extremely tight and straight-faced. Stack size $80

Preflop (8 players):
UTG calls $2
folds to Hero in HJ who calls with 44
BTN calls
Villain 1 in SB makes it $7
Villain 2 in BB calls
UTG calls
Hero calls
BTN calls

Flop Q 4 2 (pot $35):
Villain 1 bets $10
Villain 2 calls
UTG folds
Hero raises to $30
BTN folds
Villain min-raises to $50 without hesitation
Villain 2 folds
Hero shoves his remaining $213
Villain 1 calls (who i cover)

Villain 1 shows QQ

So, i need some feedback because i really don't feel like shoving was bad play in this spot. i was putting him on AA, KK or QQ of which the overpairs are more likely... i guess my real question is, is the set of 4's ever getting away from this pot?

Nope, never ever ever, especially with the stack sizes involved, not getting it in here would be horrible beyond words, sick cooler nothing you can do, move on to the next hand.

cooler man.

Well, you can't setmine small PPs and then fold when you flop a set, so yes, a cooler.
But I'm not sure about the bolded above: How can you narrow his strange so tightly? The reason you're good to get 444 in almost every time is precisely because his range has to be wider than just three hands.

He raised to $7 after two limpers, and you put him on QQ+ only? I would say that AQ would be his most likely holding in this circumstance.

You played it fine. Cooler.

If you ever get away from a flopped set when you are 65bb deep you have a problem. This is bbv.

He shows up with QTo just as often here.

I would prob flat his flop 3bet and c/r all in ott just to make sure he cant get away from his hand (when we are winning!).

Never ever ever ever ever ever EVER folding here.

yep, know u played it right and move on. and getting it in with sets of 4s at these stack size is the right move 100% of the time

also wanted to add. EVEN if u have this great read that he has QQ. u still have 1 more out lol so ur not drawing dead!! and i got it in with bottom set over top set before and hit my quad on the river

There was this one time where I hit a royal flush with T3o. Always get it in pre with T3o, because you still have outs, even against AA!!1

If we're playing for < 100 BBs and board ain't super scary (i.e. obvious straight or flush), then we can never fold a set.

There's no possible straight or flush and we're only playing for 65 BBs, so we can never fold here.

Well, thats reassuring. i was pretty sure i was judging that hand based on results but glad i checked.

Also-
I only narrowed his range that tightly after he 3bet me on the flop, not PF. But maybe that was still too tight of a range...
anyway, thanks for the reassurance everyone.

Nothing you can do. I got up-setted twice this week for my stack. One dude made his on the river...it happens.

no way. this hand has some ridic bet size tells from villain.

This happens so infrequently... Something like twice a year if you play a lot of live. Now when I say twice a year that means to YOU on the worse end of it. You'll obviously see it much more often happen to other people in hands you're not in - but don't let that influence your thinking. How many times have you seen some one with a set beat your top pair or two pair and they check or bet super small because they were "worried you might have had a bigger set". That thinking will cost you way more than the two times a year you get it in bad here.

Oh one more thing. For those of you who say "WTF Post in BBV"... I think this was a legit question and I think it is an important concept to be addressed. Obviously 65bb is never folding. The more interesting question is... At what bb would you consider it. For me... I play like donkey so it would have to be really large. I'd say, I would't think twice until I had over 1000 dollars on the table in 1-2. Anyone have any good guidance or experience on this one?

It depends on PF action and reads on villain, but I think getting in 500bb with bottom set on the flop is probably approaching spew. I'd think more like 150-200bb as the cut-off for stacking off with a set no matter what (dry board). Stacking off 500bb deep to an unknown with bottom set is going to be -EV because by the time you get to 3bet and 4bet on the flop, most villains ranges are basically bigger sets and maybe T2P.

You're obviously not ever folding, but you're also kind of setting yourself up for a spot where you can only win if you're on the winning end of a cooler. He's probably only calling AQ+ to your shove unless he's a drooler, consider CIB or flatting, it's the driest board in history.

This is clearly not sensible.
If you saw Villain's hand pre- and it was QQ, you would fold pre-.
If Villain turned his cards face-up showing QQQ on the flop, turn or river, despite the fact you have 444, you should be folding- 100% of the time.
Being able to fold when you are certain you are beat is essential.

The reason why you're happy to get it in here is that:

1. you do not know that he has QQ
2. he could easily have A-Q here (and would be justified in playing it the same way, perhaps)
3. he could have anything else (5-3, A-3, A5, KQ, KK, AA, JJ, TT etc), including air

Shoving here was justified (and "right") because there's only one hand (and only 3 combinations of that hand) that beats you- NOT because you have 1 out.

I mean, bluff by all means. But no-one with any commonsense or poker ability is getting it in knowing they have 1 (ONE) out.