1/2

8 handed, table just consolidated and added a few regs with deep stacks. Hero has only 160 and has no history with the new regs. The rest of the table has seen hero play only 5-6 raised hands over 2 hrs, winning three small pots and losing at least two. We have showed an open with 57cc from CO and we gave up on a 4 to a straight board on the river when we were bluffing with a small FD and wheel draw, villain took it down with a weak pair and a few players were surprised.
Anyways, I doubt any of that comes into play with this hand..


Players in this hand: 2 of the players who just joined the table, one a solid reg I think, and the other a competent MAWG, and a LAG fish type sitting to my left, he likes to play a lot of hands and likes to bluff. I watched him spew some money early but then he bought in for 300 and ran it up to around 700$ currently.

V1~400) MAWG limps in MP
Hero has JT in the HJ and opens to 10
V2~700) LAG fish calls in the CO

V3~500) solid reg calls in the BB

V1 calls


Flop(41) JT5

checks to hero who bets 35$

V2 calls

V3 calls

V1 folds


Turn(146) JT58

V3 checks

Hero checks

V2 bets 45

V3 raises to 115


Hero folded fairly quickly but feels like he may have folded a winner and made an exploitative fold. This game ends at midnight and this hand came up between about 11:30-11:45pm sometimes end of the night dynamics come into play but I don't think in this case there were any. Hero was not happy to end the night on this one

If you aren’t checking a lot of flushes, maybe even all of your flushes here, then check folding is probably exploitable. That being said when the solid reg raises a lag fish, while his value range may be wider than usual, it will probably contain fewer bluffs. Against a range of two made flushes and one bluff like QK with a heart we have 28.8% equity. That’s not great considering the lag fish can still reopen the action.

Even if calling is “correct” here I think you can live with letting this one go.

I hope you're kidding about losing sleep over this but from the thread title it sounds like you're mostly serious. Never lose sleep over poker. It's gonna be OK. Trust me I flirted with hell this summer.

Anyways the fold is fine. I would probably bet again myself and thin value river if called by only the LAG fish depending on river. But AP, BB is never bluffing unless he's suicidal.

If this is keeping you up you must not fold enough.


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OP try to construct a range of hands V3 could have and calculate your equity against that range. He probably has a lot of value hands given dynamic with the fish. Also, you're not leading 3 way flops with a fish unless you have a piece of it. So your check back on turn might be a sign to V3 you don't have a heart. Especially if he has Ah here he is raising often and expecting you to fold.

Fish could be stabbing widely since "you showed weakness after getting called and then checking". This is why you should be checking some flushes to balance and protect from V3 raising you off hands like JT.

Folding is fine, V3 doesn't have many spaz combos here unless he perceives the fish is weak. Even then you have demonstrated you have top pair or better and a good chunk of your range continues to his raises.

Those bolded statements contradict each other. If V3 isn't gonna be spazzing or bluffing in this spot we don't need to check to protect.

We have TOP TWO here and there are little value hands which V could bet with that we beat. Since there are two other players in the pot, there's a pretty good chance that either one of them is chasing a draw and it got there, be it the Q9s OESD or 97s gutshot or A/K/QX and lower SC flush draws. One of the other thing is bb is OOP, and if BB is still chasing some kind of draw, he very likely would like hero to be in the pot(for implied odds) rather than chasing hero out of the pot by raising CO. By raising lag fish, I think BB might be trying to extract value from the fish. That's what i thought

This sizing honestly makes the play losing imo. Preflop I like 15. And pot on that flop texture. And I like to bet/fold large on the turn.
As played I would fold too much action


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+1

If one player bets, they may not have it, but as soon as the second one raises, one of them has a real hand. You don't, so you fold and sleep well.

To expand on IBYOM80's comment, it sounds like you might have the "card marriage" syndrome. Lots of players find it difficult to give up a hand that was an obvious winner on a previous street. They get married to them and can't give them up. You have to treat them like the slutty girlfriend of the high school star quarterback. You're out of there as soon as you hear the quarterback banging on the door.

Give me JhTx here and I might have to think a few seconds before folding it. JdTd is a turbo muck.

I was mostly joking about losing sleep, I will take longer than usual to fall asleep though If I feel I have played some hands poorly and end up thinking a lot about them. That didn't end up being the case.


I'm curious about what you meant by flirting with hell

Uhh.. well I do have top two and I did not continue, so I'm not seeing which hands make up this 'good chunk' that continues against his raises.

Are you saying I should be continuing with AA with a heart KK with a heart, sets, and.. can't imagine what else if we are folding this hand...


I'm starting to feel like the lone Ace of hearts blocks enough of my flushes and can print money with this bluff If I'm folding top two and V2 is stabbing in position too often, which he does.

Super standard snapfold for me without a Jh against a solid reg.

Probably wouldn't even register in my head as a hand that needed thinking about.

In all fairness I did fold this hand fairly quickly, so I wouldn't say this fits exactly. It was only until I started to think about how often I would be giving up here if I let go of top two that I started feeling pretty sick about the fold.

I'm going to be a little harsh here ... It's hard to put together a post and give important information and yet not try to lead 'us' one way or another. You indicate some new players sit down and you have 'no history' with them ... and yet you label one a reg and one competent in the next paragraph. If you have no history ... see what I mean. Not a big deal, but could help you going forward with more posts.

New players .. late in the session .. things 'will' get crazy .. I assume you were down but you are 'shorter' for sure. (Max BI for this room is?)

The open is fine, as long as that's what been going on with you and/or at that table, and you hit an action Flop. You should be ahead but there's plenty of danger out there. So let's look at this ... Pot is $40 and you have $150 behind. You have a fish/CS to your left so whatever you do they 'probably' will come along. But even that doesn't really matter to me.

In these spots if someone is going to continue, they are going to continue regardless of the bet size as long as it's 'close'. I'm betting no less than $50 (up to $70) into $40. It's the best way for me to look wider, from over-pair to draws. It's also the best way to make sure the chips go in on the Turn (if I still think I'm ahead). Do I look any more or less strong betting $35 and giving a better price?

So even if you bet $50, the fish calls .. now you are offering $50 into $140 to the better two Players in the hand, that's 3 to 1, maybe 4 to 1. Most Players that connect are going to take you up on that and peel. Now you have $100 behind a pot of $190/240, which again offers decent calling odds.

At this point in the session I either want to win a big one or take down the 20% increase in my stack and save $1-2 in rake by taking this down on the Flop. I'm not even saying that you shouldn't still fold to this 'awful' Turn action and feel good about it. I can actually feel better about folding this Turn when I bet out for $50 on the Flop and see this Turn action occur .. unless there was some timing tells and I think Mr. reg is taking advantage of my check.

What I'm saying is take advantage of the spot in the best possible way for your stack size and the dynamic of the table ... late and perhaps loose.

Must be V2 folded to the raise and V3 took it down without showing? GL

Running like dog **** and losing my poker innocence. But it still wasn't too bad and could have been way worse.

I know what you mean, and I considered adding 'looks' competent, but I figured that me saying I had no history with them told you that much and I was just giving you my impressions.. The assumed solid reg, I have seen him at this game a lot, basically whenever I'm there but always at a different table and always has a lot of chips. I don't play too much so when I do decide to go to this room and some people always seem to be there and they have chips and don't seem degenerate I give them respect for being a reg. The competent MAWG, of course could be a complete fish who knows, but he came with other two regs who consolidated to our table, also had a healthy chip stack and seemed very deliberate and measured with his actions. Seemed to be disciplined and barring any other reads I tend to go with competent, he was Talal Shakerchi esque. I would rather play against him then the other two but like I said no history.


I would say that in the future it is probably best to just take those sorts of descriptions at face value. I'm just trying to give you my best guess initial reads without writing 3 paragraphs. Not trying to lead or mislead anyone. Or you could just ask for clarification on how I came to those assumptions.