Hey guys so this is my first live poker post so forgive me if I make any hand posting mistakes. I just played my 3rd live session and I am not sure what kind of player I am, but I would lean towards TAG. My first trip I was +145, second I was -50. I am a HU Hyper grinder on Stars at 15s with moderate success. Here's the hand:

EP Villain (~150): young white male, just sat down
BB Villain (~250): older white male, has squeezed a bunch with AQo type hands, hasn't been out of line
SB Hero (~215): young tanned male, has not been out of line/seen much action

EP Villain opens to 12, folds to Hero in SB who looks down at QcQh. Now, in this spot, I think about 3betting, but am a little trigger shy and unsure of EP Villain's open sizing as it is very strong. Hero flats the 12. BB Villain flats as well and we see the flop 3 ways.

Flop (~36) Jc7c7h

Hero checks. BB Villain leads out 15. EP Villain minraises to 30. Hero flats 30. BB Villain folds.

Turn (~81) 4c

Hero checks. EP Villain bets 55. Hero?



I would like to add my own input and tell the results, but I would much rather hear other thoughts on this particular spot as I am new to live poker.

Assuming PFR has a tight raising range, flop is a fold. Turn is definitely a fold. It looks like he has QQ+ and it's also possible he plays AKcc like this as well.

Study SPR. If you flat pre and go hu, SPR is about 6. He will get stacks in easily and you're put in a guessing game even if you flop an overpair. Against 50bb stacks or less, I will usually 3bet pre and get it in. They have enough AK, JJ and on occasion worse hands for me to get it in.

I would basically always 3bet pre here. This allows us to lose the min when he 4bets KK+. Also it allows us to play comfortably post flop knowing where we have the best hand going in pre and having a good idea of villains range. Of course if I suspect villain may 4bet AK pre then I will just flat pre. But most people don't really 4bet AK pre unless they have ~50bb or less.

The big issue with flatting is you get stacked alot when you flop an overpair against KK+ and most villains UTG only raise with AQ+, TT+ at the worst and often times it's more like AK+, JJ+

Okay, so in this spot, 3bet is standard and then if he 4bets you get it in or you fold? What if he flats, he's likely to have 88-JJ?

I would lean heavily towards AcAx AcXc JJ here. Air is possible but you have no history or reads. Min raising isn't always indicative of strength but continuing as board gets worse and worse and you COLD CALLED his raise and he still doesn't give a **** and fires turn. Time to fold. Interested to see if he flips over 32o and goads you or shows up with a bluff that rivered your ass (for entertainment purposes haha). The bet sizing off 55 into 80+ is also interesting, leaving himself 60 ish. I've seen this as terrible semi bluffs in the past.

tbh, I should have mentioned that his hand was trembling as he was firing turn

ROFL. Live tells are awesome from level-1 thinking players. Ok so he had 77 gg. So now I'm putting opponent at AcXc, AcAx, 77, JJ, random 44, Ac7x LOL. I Guess you can put KcKx in there too, but still...him having any airball hands in my mind is now gone. Some people shake when bluffing, thinking players sometimes do reverse tells, I wouldn't worry about any of that at this level.

I'll be shocked if he doesn't have basically any of those hands. In live poker, tells and things like that are basically last resort, last piece of the puzzle, things if you can't decide whether to call/raise/fold in any spot. Sometimes it ends up being the most important clue, sometimes, it's just icing on the cake, and most of the times it's irrelevant. I'm really curious as to what he min-raised with. Some people will min-raise "to see where they are at" and shut down unless they hit a gin card. When you reveal the result, I'm going to note it, and also you should note what this random/no-reads-yet opponent min-raised with. You'll see a lot of random players do exactly what he did.

Live 1/2 game 12 doesn't seem like a really strong preflop sizing, but more like a standard open. Anyways min raises are usually top pair type hands against live fish probably just call turn and re evaluate river. Basically calling off all rivers that are not an A or K, since he has lots of AcJx Kcjx

Ooh ooh ooh ooh, yea AcJx is a possible hand too. Derp a derp! Yes, this is very correct what is posted above.

Apologize for the spamming, but we must also account for continuation on turn, generally weak players will give up without a very very strong hand (in their mind) on the turn and river. Combining the range of hands I now put him on, the live tell, the continuation on the turn, it's nuts or nothing, and I weight heavily towards nuts.

interesting analysis about the hand trembling and also his bet sizing on turn leaving himself with ~60 for river action

I was not sure of what to make with the hand trembling, but I thought it was more strength rather than weakness as well.

Unless he has tremors (shakes all the time, even when not in hand), seeing someone hand shaking has 100% been a monster in my experience. It would be a good false tell if you can fake it.

I think you will learn that live tells aren't as important as things you've learned from playing online (betting patterns etc..). However, the shaking hands is a very strong indication of strength...especially in older players.

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the things that have helped me out the most are bet sizings and once I see a hand at showdown and have seen how it was played, my reads become pretty solid

also, people leading out when they have sets and raising flops when they have sets has been pretty evident to me

I will let this thread be seen for a while longer before posting the results. Thanks everyone.

for those wondering, I called turn knowing that I'd have to call non A/K rivers and villain jammed the rest on river and showed KK

Another +1 on hand shaking its usually aa or kk or quads and everytime I see it I never have a set ugh.

Grunch

QQ should 3-bet here almost every time at LLSNL games. I'd make it $30-$35.

Min-raise on flop is very strong from LLSNL players. You usually see a min-raise from donkish players who are trying to build a pot with a big hand and think their min-raise is sneaky.

As played, I'm folding turn.

Flatting here with these stack sizes is a mistake in general. More importantly, it is going to invite a flat from big blind a ton, which will put you in an awful relative position because not only are you out of position to original raiser, but you have the problem of not really knowing anything about big blind's hand because you don't get to see him react to the villian's likely c bet before you act. So there is that, which certainly would support three betting not just qq, but actually a significant part of your range here.

More fundamentally, you are missing a ton of value not three betting here. You should be absolutely crushing this opening range and I would want to set this pit up where I can bet flop shove turn (i.e. 35, 60, shove). As played you have no clue where you are. To me it looks like you have hearts, so I think he is still bombing turn with AJ/KJ and maybe TT:99 so I am check jamming turn as played.

Against most 1/2 players you can just bet/fold a strong 1 pair hand on all 3 streets, so 3-betting pre is a good move. Value pre and knowing worse is never raising post so you can just go for value the entire way.

Once you get to the flop though, you lose to AA/KK/JJ, TT is never doing this. So you can confidently fold otf.

I misread suits. Did not see clubs completed... Yeah, I may fold turn in this spot. Other analysis unchanged.

I'm assuming the KK was KcKx? If it wasn't, damn. LOL. Anyway, now you/we know. Generally in this spot it's a monster. The fact he didn't care about board texture is hilarious even with over-pair but then again it wasn't that deep. This is actually a tough spot even at low-stakes when stacks are medium-sized <100BB like this. Interesting hand, best of luck in the future!

I'm not entirely sure if he had Kc but tbh I'm leaning towards him not having it which is why I was even more surprised.

Thanks I appreciate the support!