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1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. 1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish.

06-16-2012 , 07:35 PM
Hero $480, been card dead but Villian did notice me raise a few pots and chk fold flops.
Villian covers, Complete maniac. Been raising 16+ and showing 82os etc etc.
He won all his chips by calling a big 3bet with 10-8os flopped a gutter ball, got it all in vs AK and rivered a pair. I saw him 3bet with 92os, he then called a 4bet with same hand. Missed flop, folded, & showed.

Straddled hand, Villian blind raises to $8 UTG.

Folded to Hero in MP, raises to $28 KJcc. I figured Villian would likely call with a wide range since he already had the $8 invested.

Its folded to him and he snap raises to $130.

When he was bluffing he always did it fast just like he did here. Obviously theres a chance he actually has a hand here.

Are we deep enough & do we have a good enough hand here to call and evaluate?

Raising really didnt cross my mind since all it would do is fold out all his bluffs.

Do we wait for a better spot or take a flop
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 08:30 PM
I don't think you want to take a flop here. I would probably just fold, but my heart says shove. Even his bluffs might have you beat and you're gonna be in the same position on the flop as you are right now, except sometimes his bluffs will outdraw you and you have to guess when he cbets the flop unless you hit a pair or FD/SD.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 08:39 PM
Grunch: My thinking- Shoveing=bad. If I call, I'm going to stack off if I hit the flop. If he has a better hand so be it. My odds of hitting the flop are around 30-35% since I'll be getting it in with FD/SD too. It sounds like he'll be stacking off with you a lot of the time so you're calling $102 to win $485 and we'll round down to $450 to help account for the times he actually manages to fold his hand. 4.5:1 round that down by quite a bit to account for being behind when we hit or drawn out on makes it `3/3.5:1 which makes it a call and evaluate. I'm not necessarily saying this is what you should do, it's just how I'd probably think in game.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 09:17 PM
Calling seems awful. He will lead the flop whatever happens so 2/3 of the time you will brick and fold. Sometimes you will get a flop you are losing on like ajx when he has an ace and you don't fold or qjx and u don't fold because it's really hard not to get it in when you flop a pair vs a maniac. Sometimes you flop a darw, get it in and lose and sometimes you will get outdarwn with the best hand.

Shoving seems bad. The guy is playing every hand, but he doesn't get less valid hands than anyone else and he will not be folding any hand he is raiisng for value. We match up really bad vs his value range. Furthermore he might just gamble a lot of hands we don't beat like 86/96 37 etc. We are not much ahead of these hands.

Therefore pass and wait for a better spot.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 09:19 PM
Calling big 3bets vs nutters and evaluating on flops is the worst u can do.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 09:23 PM
KJs vs a 75% range (too narrow IMO) is 60%. The question is whether or not you like variance. Someone's going to get his money. What are the odds that it's going to be you in a better spot?
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 09:38 PM
Yeah but he isn't calling off all of that range and sometimes people can appear bluffier than they are. Also usually really big three bets like this are more likely to be genuine hands. Also we are really deep.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 10:18 PM
OP described him as truly maniacal.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-16-2012 , 10:59 PM
For 100 bbs I'd probably shove but I think this is a fold since you can probably find a better spot. Just hope someone else doesn't get his money first.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-17-2012 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerBN
Straddled hand, Villian blind raises to $8 UTG.

Folded to Hero in MP, raises to $28 KJcc. I figured Villian would likely call with a wide range since he already had the $8 invested.
Re-raising with KJ is always terrible.
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-17-2012 , 12:57 AM
When playing against loose players who don't play fit or fold...you usually don't want to put a lot of money in before you hit your hand...

Big overpairs JJ+ you raise big pre flop....

Big high cards don't want to put a lot of money in, until you hit...

So you want to make the smallest raise preflop you can that isolates the Lagy player...if just calling was likely to isolate or getting you the btn...that would have been fine....

I would probably try a minish raise maybe 16-20...and on his re-raise let it go...(shove AJ+ A9s+ 77+ something like that)
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-17-2012 , 03:52 AM
Listen to Tony G on this one. Quoted in Tony G voice "If you read my pokah book. I say nevah evah overplay Keeng Jack." or 3:22 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr4LnhLQF3o
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-17-2012 , 11:42 AM
IMHO wait for a better spot!
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote
06-17-2012 , 12:00 PM
I hate the phrase "wait for a better spot" in cash games. I don't feel like explaining it, it's pretty simple

You've described villain's play but not the size of the bets he's been making and calling. This may be a case where he'll raise and call with garbage for small amounts but when he puts in a big raise like this he actually has something and is trying to get paid off for his image

I make it $20 pf, enough to isolate the maniac but not risk too much if someone wakes up with a hand cold

I'd fold to his raise
1/2 Preflop spot vs complete maniac/fish. Quote

      
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