ok, so i was playing 1/2 last night and i ended up short buying cause i didn't even plan on playing. i was hanging out with some friends and they talked me into going and i didn't have much cash on me so i sat with 60. because of this, i have a super tight image since i've been so low stack. i ended up building my stack up over 300 when this hand happened. i'm pretty sure after i call the flop i have to call the turn, but i'm not positive. the villian in this hand has been hella spewy and bluffing eery chance he gets.



i'm on the button and i have 300 in front of me. pretty much the whole table limps to me and i have qh7h and make it 18 to go. like 5 players call and the flop comes qs,5h,6d. the small blind checks, the spewy villian bets 50. it folds to me. i think for a min and ask how much the sb and the raiser have. the sb has me covered, and the raiser has 93 behind. i decide to call(i think that's better than raising here). sb folds, and the raiser shoves all in in the dark before the turn peels. turn was an 8, so nothing has really changed. theres about 200 in the pot now. is this a call every time?

I hate preflop. We just created a huge bloated multi-way pot with a hand that is very unlikely to win in. If we're going to get tricky and raise here, the goal is to take it down now or get it HU (or 3way at absolute worse), so we have to size our raise so that goal is reached. Otherwise, I'm not raising. Even though I'm a lot looser on the button, I actually fold this piece of garbage since it can't make a straight.

Flop is a fold, IMO. The board isn't very drawy and villain just bet into more-or-less the world. We beat almost no Qx.

Once we're in this mess on the turn, I think it's a little close now that we've picked up the OESD. We have a chance at being best already against this spewy guy, and could have upwards of 11 outs if we're behind to just Qx, and we're getting over 3:1. I might call here. But preflop/flop really set us up for a situation we should never be in.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fold flop.

Turn is pretty close, but you're getting closed to pot odds. Have to call.

It's not that close when we know we know we are drawing to a 9 4 or 7.

Fold pre, Fold flop, Fold turn imo.

That's 11 outs (admittedly, they might not all be good), which I think is just over 3:1, which is the pot odds we're getting. I haven't broken it down to the cent, but it's pretty damn close. I think the fact that there is also a slim chance that we're ahead makes it a call.

I orginially thought this flop went HU, which wouldn't be close.

I don't know how to use pokerstove, assuming Villain has a hand such as KQ we're about 25% with 1 card to come or equal to 3:1, should villain have a set we're lower than 20% and need 4-1. I still think we should fold here with 1 card to come.

And of course fold pre, fold flop.

Villain likely flopped two pairs, and in such case, we're actually better than 3:1.

Combining all the possibilities in forming a range, we're definitely better than 3:1.

Relatively straight forward call.

Sounds like you guys are forgetting villains image. I happily call TPNK + OESD vs an idiot getting 3:1. I dont even think about what he has.

Fold pre, villain leads into many opponents and the preflop aggressor for 1/3 of his remaining stack...fold on the flop. As played, i think if you called the flop then you are calling the obv turn shove that you had to know was coming regardless of what fell on the turn.

i ended up folding the turn... i wasn't on my a game though. i had some girl watching me and i was talking to her more than paying attention to the game. like i said i didn't even plan on playing. anyways, i folded and villian showed 46, for a pair of sixes. i know alot of you guys are saying fold pre, but typically in the games i play in, $18 raise is gonna thin the field.. this hand just ended up being peculiar.

Given villains image and that SB is out of the pot, I think you call here. I don't like the raise pre flop. I think it's fine to limp along on the button here given you have position and a lot of chips

Meh, have a hard time believing this. You say typically $18 thins the field, however that is precisely what DIDNT happen. In fact, what happened was that everyone called and you're holding a crappy hand, which is exactly what we all said would happen. Now is it just an amazing coincidence that we were right? Or that realistically, there's basically no reason to ever be raising this hand unless you have a notepad and have calculated that the avg table vpip is 5%.

Even if you were convinced that you could "thin the herd", exactly what are you hoping to accomplish with a hand like Q7? I can tell you this much, if 5 people put in their BB, at least one of them is going to see a flop unless you make it like $40 or so. Even if you got it HU with someone, again whats the plan here? Just bluff him off the flop because you hate him? You dont even know who's going to call, so how can you decide what to do with a hand when you're basically playing blindfolded?

This is just way too fancy and totally unnecessary isolation attempt or whatever. There's maybe $12 in dead money according to you and you're risking $18 with complete air to pick it up, and for what? NLHE is about winning stacks, not randomly stealing worthless pots.

i don't mind being in marginal spots pf, so with the raise i'm ready to go with my reads and possibly be in a situation where i call down with mid pair or q no kicker. also, i disagree about winning a $12 pot being worthless. if you can do it consistently, without anyone playing back at you often, it all adds up and the end of the session

I prefer call pre to raise pre.

If 17 bucks is going to make it 5way (standard at 1 2); then just limp.
Except for your rare complete b---h moments (like this hand), you generally play well, outplay our oppoenents postflop, handread, etc.

So just call, see it multi-wayy, and then you can try and kieep this kinda **** in control. Much easier to call a psycho when its 20BB on turn and 40BB on river than 20BB on flop, stack on turn (in general, not just this hand).

And dude, once you get the draw with it, auto-call. Straight is always good, pair of Qs is good against a spewtard way more often than it should be. Thats why they're a spewtard

Sorry, I'm still a little drunk, but WTF? In 1/2 I am NEVER raising with Q/7 after several limpers. I don't understand the desire to get involved in this pot. You'll have plenty more buttons in your future, man.

Fold. Completely terrible PF. Should have raised way more in an almost limped table. Your just bloating the pot and I am sure SOMEBODY is set mining. Q7 suited is a Terrible hand to bloat the pot with anyways. Fold all day long...or should have been an aggro-monkey and jam PF when it folded to you. Everybody will fold to you this time...unless they want to gamble just as much as you...

why does he have to fold?
I mean for real. All posters here seem to agree that:
1) his villains are all aweful
2) his hand is mediocre at best
3) the button has some value

I mean any 2 suited cards are probably worth playing in a limped s--tshow at 1 2, if you have the button at 80+BB against most the table. The is really THAT bad that I think its -EV for a decent player to fold the button here. Erego your choices are: Call (my preferred), or raise (leads to exactly this kindof gross spot)

I know it doesn't sound like it on his past couple threads, but OP is far better than your average 1 2 disaster. He's awful at BRM, which is his biggest leak and more than anything is what prevents him from steadily moving up.

Maybe a typical $12 dollar pot, but this one is worthless. There's too much risk involved for a $12 dollar pot. You have to fire into the whole table! Plus I can guarantee a couple people are SET MINING, plus 2 pair is totally possible. Suited gappers are all over you here. Plus good chance if you hit your up n' down, that your gonna pay off the higher straight or drawing to a chop against the 87 which is my favorite hand by the way and it does play very, very well multi pots. Your going against an 8-7, or a set and this is not a spot to do it. Q7 is terrible to play, at least be Q8 in a multi way pot so when you hit your straight, you can pay off the KQ and realize that you shouldn't have been in the hand to begin with...