Hero- 70BB. Young new player. Decent overall, nothing special but better than some live players.
V1 MP-80BB
V2 MP-60BB

Hero- LP. K K
Table folds to V1.
V1 raises to 10.
V2 calls
I raise to 25
Both call.

Flop: 2 7 9

V1 raises to 10
V2 calls

I raise to 30.

Both call

Turn: 8

V1 bets 20
V2 folds
Hero raise to 40

V1 shoves roughly $95 (stacks are approx).

What do?

Raise more at every point

If you just make it 40 pf which is std 3x raise +1x for caller and they both call you can basically shove flop for 2/3 pot... Or bet whatever seems reasonable to get called in flop and shove turn easily...

You could even make it 35 and basically accomplish the same goal

Pretty basic spot for you..

^

Ya you guys could actually try and help this poor fellow.. U were new at poker once too...

Good idea. Had I done this I would have not gotten myself into major trouble, which you can probably figure out without me revealing what happened.
Thanks man! I underbet in all spots and let them see cards they shouldn't have been able to see, right?

Thanks! I'm just a casual player and play about twice a month but really enjoy poker. Appreciate the support.

Its not that u let them see cards you shldnt have.. Its really a function of just betting your hand for value...

You have a good hand pf tht can def get called by worse...

On the flop you still rate to have the best hand on a dryish board so you bet for value again..

Also there is a concept called spr (stack to pot ratio) which basically is how much u have left in your stack compared to what is in the pot..

You want to set up hands like this so that when u raise pre you basically know u are nvr folding post (if an A doesnt flop) and you can gii comfortably without making a mistake (such as folding)

So in this spot if you make it 35-40 pre and get two calls and no A on flop = nvr fold with your stack size here...

120 in pot and you have 100 back.. Either shove flop or go like 50 then 50 turn is ok as long as you nvr fold it doesn't matter...

So, assuming you made the mistake I did of inadequate raising, what would you have done when he shoved the turn? Would he really shove without a straight or at the bare minimum a set?

Alot of bad v will shove 9x here so you have to account for that.. And honestly it only like 55 more to call into a big pot so combos wise i would
Call unless he specifically turned his hand over and showed me a set or str.. Even against 2pr i would prob call

yea what they said,

raise to 35-40pf

bet 2/3 otf and allin ott

as played, id raise a lot bigger otf probably allin.

But tbh if u just 4x it pre this prob wouldnt have happened...

Ur right....I was thinking that since my hand was so good I didn't want to force them out with an over bet but this ended up biting me in the butt. Had I shoved the flop he would have likely folded and thus not allowed him to see the turn and draw the inside straight.

I like the idea of shoving the flop cause it looks spewy bluffy...esp with our image. Trust me we want people to call our shove on this flop in a 1/2 game because K9 A9 Q9 TT JJ QQ 88 T9ETC and even when someone has 2 pair were not doing to bad cause thw turn will usually give us outs.

Well he had it ott so dont feel too bad. I have a feeling that our villian is calling more pf and more on the flop cause he has a(n) out.

Just un lucky but from my perspective making it 30ish pre flop and 100 otf. its pretty much gonna be the same result.

So hopefully next time we get up against these hands a K turns and we stack them hard.

I make it ~40 pre and ship flop.

:grunch:

I like to see posts entirely in $'s, not mixed with $ and BB, but whatever.

Raise more pre. $35 at a minimum, my first thought is $50, but I play closer to 150BB most nights. You've got $140, so if you can get $40 each in preflop you can pretty much close your eyes and shove any flop blind and still profit.

There's $75 in the pot when V1 leads for $10. Then there's $95 when it gets to you and you've got $115 behind. A good bet would be to make this $75. With your stack you could also just shove. Although sometimes it's easier to get action when your bets are less than $100 (villain dependent).

On the turn, there's now $165+20 in the pot and $85 back. Just ship, don't make these stupid min-raises. Call him off when he shoves.

You basically raised FAR too small at every opportunity.

I doubt he would have called $40-50 preflop with JTo, but who knows. Even so, I should have probably shoved the flop and he may have folded chasing an inside straight draw.

Looking back my play seems so stupid yet I couldn't figure this out at the table

Thanks for your help Angrist! In the future I will use one reference of money in $ or BB.

Pre is fine. Unless we are very certain they will call a bigger raise pre, I like your smaller raise as stacks are really shallow and you want to keep them in. On flop we raise big for value. A raise to $40 is good, you don't want to raise too big. A good sized raise serves several purposes. First off, if they call with worse they're making a big mistake. Second off even if they fold they surrender all the equity they have. It's a win win for you.

The issue isn't whether he'll call $40-50 with JTo. If he does then good for us. But most of the *other* hands he'll call with are crushed.

My $50 sizing is a reaction to the games that I usually play in (as I stated). It's pretty much just experience and instinct. Which is part of what you develop the longer you play and the more time you put in off the tables. So with your stack depth maybe $35 is a better sizing.


You don't *WANT* him to fold his straight draw on the flop. You want him to CALL you, getting the wrong price with the wrong odds. That's why we bet. It gets us value when they call incorrectly.

In *most* situations a min-raise is going to be wrong. Usually you'll want to either flat or raise larger. If you find yourself making a min-raise, reconsider why you're picking that sizing.

After your flop raise, they have to call 20 into a pot of 125. It's going to be correct for them to call with just about their entire ranges. You want them to make a mistake (i.e. so that their call would be losing them money against your hand in the long run). If you raise it to 60, they'll have to call 50 into a pot of 155, and now you're inducing a bunch of hands into making a serious mistake, and over time you're printing money.