+1

call and set mine. Reads aren't specific enough to do otherwise.

Yeah... Didn't focus on 4-handed dynamics. But still flat... We don't want to get value-owned by the whale when he hits any over card, won't let go, and being OOP it's too hard to control. Plus 88 by itself does have some SDV.

Look at it from the 4 edges point of view.

Card edge. MAYBE, but it's not going to be that big if you're 3 or 4 handed

Position. NOPE SB-worst spot on the table

Initiative. You may or may not be the last preflop aggressor. You can 3 bet, but because you are OOP, there's no guarantee that you won't get 4 bet. So at best you get a MAYBE.

Skill edge. Judging from your posts and admitting you've been playing a yr. Let's just say it's MINIMAL at best. Definitely not enough to overcome deficits in the other 3 areas.

Let's combine all these maybe's and minimal's to say you have 1 edge out of 4. Definitely NOT a situation you want to get yourself into while trying to be cute or tricky with your play. SET MINING, on the other hand, because of the IO and ok direct odds offered to you, is perfectly acceptable.

Say you call the $6 and the BB comes along. IO say you need a $90 pot to make this good. There's already $24 in the pot, that leaves $66 left to extract from 3 other players if you flop a set. Since BTN (by your own description) is pretty damn sticky, do you think it is might be easier to get 2 $17 type bets out of him? Say you flop a set, lead out for a measly $10-$15 on the flop and mr. BTN (because he just can't help himself) calls. Pot is now $44-$54. You're not going to be scared of many turn cards, so make another 1/2 potish sized bet. $25 (just for argument's sake) and MR. sticky calls again. Pot just cleared $100, and you still get to bet the river.

Then there's the showdown value 4 handed that 88 has. You may actually have the best hand to the river. There are plenty of board run outs that you can C/C a couple of streets with 2nd pair and be good. (that mostly depends on V's post flop tendencies though)

Just my opinion, I've been known to be wrong plenty of times. GL

OP plays good, <insult scrubbed>

I don't dislike 6bet, but this PAHWM is incredibly weak and it could easily be inferred from the lack of information normally present in these types of threads that OP does not have a large skill edge. In fact, I seem to recall him making another PAHWM which also had no reads that Richard Parker chastised him for, but that could have been another poster so I'm not going all in on that.

How is it that you have more than once made a post calling someone an ignorant **** or telling someone to **** off and the mods have done nothing?

Edit: that other PAHWM I was thinking of was definitely not made by OP.

We are all here to learn and improve. No need to call someone out in their own thread for christsakes.

Yea, I am ignorant when it comes to some things. In my response to OP, however, I'm not.

I've been called worse by presumably better people, so whatever.

I was in no way disrespectful towards OP, which is more than you can say in your response toward me.

LOL at providing even a shread of poker insight with your rebuttle.

If You can't handle me constructively criticizing you're boy, maybe you should refrain from commenting on his posts.

On a side note, I'm asking the mods to refrain from doing whatever they would normally do as punishment for openly being such an ass. If you disagree with me, cool, just make an attempt to act like an adult while explaining why and what you'd do different.

Take it easy guys.

Going further in the hand...

Tight player UTG ($400) raises to $7,
Whale on BTN who never folds to raises/3bets ($400) calls,
Hero in SB ($450) just calls
BB is another passive fish ($350) calls

Flop ($28): 662r
Hero is first to act..

Check and see what happens. You hand is probably too good to give up to the first bet, but you don't want to see a lot of action.

Other then hitting an 8, the best sequence for you is check flop, UTG c-bets, and only you call. Turn is checked around and then you can check/evaluate river. If UTG gets aggressive or somebody gets involved hero needs to seriously consider folding. You beat a lot of UTG's range but if he is willing to build a big pot on this board he probably beats you.

OP, you'll improve the quality of responses if you paste into your summary of action the relevant reads that you've added within thread, nobody wants to keep hunting through to find them.

I like a donk bet here. Whatever the smallest size is that will get CO to fold 2 overs. Only 5% chance each that bb or BU have trips. Let's get HU with whale and make a value bet all in one.

I don't hate a 3 bet to isolate in this spot if the whale is easy to play post flop. A 7 dollar raise from a tight player in a typical 1/2 game will probably fold to a 3 bet 70-80%. At worst you get 4 bet and have to fold, but it can also isolate the whale with atc, or build you a big pot if you hit a set. If you get called by tight guy and whiff, just shut down. Not that calling and set mining is a bad play, I just think you can make a case for either. I say call 60% in this spot and 3 bet 40% to balance your range.

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I could understand a donk bet, or a C/C here. I guess if UTG has a sizing tell pre, but BTN is more of a station, then I would just donk out and hope one calls.

My natural tendency here would be to take a C/C line. ESPECIALLY if BTN V like to bet when checked to.

I say call and set mine here. The stacks are pretty deep relative to the raise and you're going to be OOP with mostly likely 1 or more over card on the board post flop. If it was short stacked then I might say 3 bet and try to get heads up since it is only 4 handed but I think set mining would be more profitable here.

+1

I just have 1 question, What the heck is PAHWM???

"Play a hand with me"

Hate to say it but I think you're done. By "done" meaning, hoping these fellows let you get to showdown for cheap (or free).

It would be worth a c/c if the following conditions are met:
a) UTG tends to bet/call when he hits, and check/fold when he misses the flop
b) BTN auto-bets when checked to
c) UTG and BB never check-raise

Fold if UTG bets, consider c/r if bb donks and everybody else folds.

Don't like the donk bet. Tight players don't open raise sc's from ep. If someone is even playing sc's from early position, that's pretty loose. Raising them is maniac territory. So if the guy's sitting there playing very few hands and showing down decent stuff, hate to tell you but a) he's never folding because b) he doesn't have to. He's got you smoked.

Wouldn't donk out against BTN either. Better to let him bluff with his trash rather than to fold it.

Going to the turn..

Tight player UTG ($400) raises to $7,
Whale on BTN who never folds to raises/3bets ($400) calls,
Hero in SB ($450) just calls
BB is another passive fish ($350) calls

Flop ($28): 6 6 2
Hero is first to act and donks $15, BB folds, UTG (OR) calls, BTN folds

Turn ($58): 6
Hero ??

My usual play would be to be done putting money into this pot. Maybe x/x, x/c small river bet. As I think about it though, a turn x/r is a creative thought.

bets $30

How light would tight player call a flop bet with? A10o? Lighter?

Do you still think the preflop raise size is a tell?

How many PPs with that raise size pre and call are in his range?

Your first thoughts were better, since x/r the turn would be spew. The turn card is terrible for us, and the tight PF raiser now knows that his overpair is good (especially since Hero didn't 3bet PF). If he didn't fold the flop, he's never folding now.

That's exactly what I wasn't able to figure out. Does he call flop with AK? AQ? AT? etc. I'd say there's a 50% chance. I need to really start paying attention at the table.

Again, I wasn't 100% sure but yes, I default to assuming it's no better than TT+/AQ+.

22-99 if I'm assuming he'd size it bigger with TT+. But maybe TT+ 20-30% of the time.